.

subscribebutton1

Log in
x
Register
x

Search - Documents
Search - Articles and Content

 

Residents' Association Forum

 

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: BlueSky on October 28, 2013, 09:12:34 PM

 



Title: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on October 28, 2013, 09:12:34 PM
Something struck me today with the Tree down, why isn't Watts Road one way into the village?

It would stop cat-runners and make the high street / George and Dragon a lot safer. Has this been ever considered?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 28, 2013, 09:45:12 PM
I have heard many residents of Thames Ditton say that this would indeed be a good (and cheap) way to help our traffic problem. 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Portmeirion on October 29, 2013, 10:02:39 AM
I would like this too, it wold also provide some much needed commuter parking.

Perhaps the residents could do a test run, then present to the council


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Dictun Mearc on October 29, 2013, 11:36:16 AM
So rather than having half the cars coming down Station Road turn right onto Watts Road, they'd all be forced through the High Street, with those wanting to go south heading down St Leonard's Road, and probably Portsmouth Avenue instead, increasing congestion along there?  Doesn't sound like a great plan to me.    Having it one way would also increase traffic speeds, making things more dangerous for everyone, and would inconvenience all the residents around Watts Road/ Giggs Hill Green.  In addition to the residents, Library users, Cricket club members, Thames Ditton Hall users, Giggs Hill Green Surgery users, and Thames Ditton Junior school users would all be forced to divert through other residential roads when coming from the village. 

Effectively, having it one way into the village would cut off all these important community facilities from the rest of the village, as there is no real alternative to getting to them than going down Watts Road, with the exception of the High Street/ St Leonard's Road/ Portsmouth Avenue/ nasty right hand turn onto the Portsmouth Road/ right hand turn down Giggs Hill Road north side.  This diversion would cause far more congestion than just keeping the status quo.





Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on October 29, 2013, 11:57:22 AM
I really dont think we have a big problem with it as it is now?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 29, 2013, 02:30:06 PM
I'm afraid we do have a problem Craigmax.  Perhaps it is just down Station Road.  Eventually something will have to be done because the only way traffic is getting past each other at the moment is by driving along the pavement - which is very dangerous (especially when the vehicles driving along the pavement are larger vans and lorries) 

No Dictun Mearc - I don't think you are correct.

If the one way system was initiated correctly, I think that the Thames Ditton "rat run" would become such a tortuous route, that rat runners would stay on the Hampton Court Way and go along the Portsmouth Road - thus cutting down traffic throughout the WHOLE of Thames Ditton. 

It would increase the time that it would take to get to/from Station Road where I live but I would GLADLY put up with that increased time if it stopped all the abuse, violence, driving on the pavement, honking of horns that we are now getting down, what was until quite recent, a fairly "normal" road.

I would love to know which roads everyone posting on the Forum,  lives on - because  that could exlain some of the views expressed.  I would also like to know if RA reps were actually posting on the Forum.  Just a thought.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on October 29, 2013, 03:39:54 PM
maybe I miss it all but on motorbike or car I drive along all the roads above at varying times. I do see the odd bit of impatience, the odd gesture and some really bad and inconsiderate and thoughtless driving but it never seems to hold anybody up for longer than a minute maximum.

Driving on the pavement agreed could be very dangerous.

I live on the island.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on October 29, 2013, 04:02:57 PM
I think there is some misunderstanding - the initial post was about a one way along watts road... and that was all...

Personally I ignored that particular post - as it seemed a bit of a half thought that did not make sense.

Turning a few roads to create a one way through our whole village is a different dicussion.

I believe we have discussed on this forum before... I will try and dig out the thread.

I liked the idea but if I remember rightly - people cleverer than me (and far more knowledgeable) pointed out its flaws and mainly how it has been mooted but people indicated they would not support it.

Let me dig out the old thread as I think we can fast forward this discussion a little...


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on October 29, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
Quote from: BlueSky on October 28, 2013, 09:12:34 PM
Has this been ever considered?


ad nauseam

http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=362.0[/url]

[url]http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=718.0[/url]

[url]http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.0[/url]

[url]http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=355.0[/url]

[url]http://residents-association.com/news/parking.php



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 29, 2013, 06:09:37 PM
I hope that I don't sound rude, but saying that the idea has been discussed on "this forum" is not really saying that it has been discussed by a fair representation of the residents of Thames Ditton.

We don't know how many people belonging to this forum actually live in Thames Ditton.  They could be people whose only motive is to make their journey through Thames Ditton easier  (ie  they are rat runners).

Or they could just be people, who drive here in the morning, who want to keep commuter parking easy and most of all FREE. 

Yet again, I am not saying that the majority of people living in Station Road would want a one-way system.  I just think that we, and other residents of Thames Ditton, should be asked by a professionally constructed questionnaire.  Who knows - everyone might "vote" to stay exactly as we are, which I would happily accept, because the residents had been asked and had given their view.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on October 29, 2013, 08:53:51 PM
I think you have misunderstood me mg.

When I said I believe it has been discussed and let me dig out the thread I was not trying to imply anything other than exactly what I said - which was 'i think' it would help to 'fast forward this discussion'...

ie i did not mean (and nor do I think I did but that's by the by) to imply any of the following :
1- that the idea does not merit further discussion
2- that we can come up with a solution on here... Or that the opinions on this forum are reflective of the village as a whole

I would never be naive enough to assume the latter

People may disagree but personally i think there is some merit in rereading some of the past discussions on this as there were some good points raised (including yourself mg if i recall correctly).

i think these points are worth considering whatever solution/approach/next steps are planned/intended and I remember someone pointing out the flaws in the idea...

I see ratty has posted some links and I will go through them tomorrow to see if I can identify the key/pertinent points...

To address your other concern: I am pretty confident that this forum is purely residents of Thames Ditton... I don't think we have been infiltrated by commuter parkers  (well except maybe the poster named commuter Parker but that's hardly the cleverest bit of subterfuge !!)  trying to influence us away from creating a one way system in our village.

After all by our own acknowledgement we can do little other than discuss these ideas...

Since you ask and it seems to matter I live on Alexandra road. i rarely have to drive through the village (i tend to walk there and driving from mine is either towards hampton court or down to portsmouth road avoiding the village) - and i assure you i have no ulterior motives either for or against one way systems nor any parking issues!

and finally I'd happily identify myself at any of the pub crawls/visits I have tried to organise !


Edited to add:

Here is a thread in which we discuss a one way system...

Now I remember why it stuck on my head as in this thread it was actually my suggestion and mg you were keen on the idea too:

http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=718.0

The problem I had was actually defining the full one way system 'loop'... Mg give it a go ... You would need it in order to know what to canvass after all

its surprisingly tricky... What exact roads would  form the one way ... Summer road / Speer road included or not (and how can you have a loop without!) and then what do you do about the bus routes... Which way is it one way on watts?

And then admin pointed out it has already been discussed and was not popular ....

Quote from: mg on October 29, 2013, 06:09:37 PM
I hope that I don't sound rude, but saying that the idea has been discussed on "this forum" is not really saying that it has been discussed by a fair representation of the residents of Thames Ditton.



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on October 29, 2013, 09:13:21 PM
MG - I agree, a questionnaire needs to be done

Juninho - no it was not ill-thought, rat-runners will soon be deterred and use the scilly isles instead. I would not support any more rounds being one-way as the village isn't a race track and it would be make it hugely inconvenient.

Dictun Mearc - what's wrong with walking to the community facilities


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on October 29, 2013, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: BlueSky on October 29, 2013, 09:13:21 PM
MG - I agree, a questionnaire needs to be done


Were you to take the time to do some background reading on the links provided you would be aware that the RA undertook an extensive consultation in 2006-2007 (http://residents-association.com/news/parking.php).

With regards to the idea of a one way system the findings were:

"One way system
A few residents and one senior SCC official pushed the idea of a one-way system from the Fountain Roundabout to Station Road. The traders were opposed, projecting that this would halve passing trade. High Street residents were largely opposed. There were fears that a smooth passage would serve only to increase speeds and traffic volume in the High Street."

Positive outcomes were the double yellow lines creating an extra passing space on Watts Road and the curfew parking on Basingfield Road.

Personally, Station Road seems a lot better now that it is not filled with the parked vehicles of contractors working on the houses there - which I think was when MG brought the topic up. It is certainly no worse than Summer Road, St Leonard's Road and many others have become in recent years with parked cars creating pinch points. The worse place at the moment is on Speer Road at the opposite end to the station where people often end up having to reverse to allow oncoming cars and the local bus to squeeze past.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 29, 2013, 10:30:39 PM
Juninho - thank you for giving all of this so much thought.  Thought is good.  I think about it all a lot, especially on days like today, when the traffic (and thus the driver abuse/impatience/horn honking/screeching driving and driving on the pavement outside of my house) has been really bad on Station Road. 

Pointing out that we don't know where forum users live was just a reminder of how "unscientific" opinions and views on this forum are.  (If that makes sense).  Everyone's views are interesting but some views are more important in the Thames Ditton context than others.

I know you can't answer this Juninho, but I do wonder when Admin says that the one way system has already been discussed and it didn't prove popular - who discussed it and how were the opinions garnered? 

Thinking about the route around TD, well I would expect a Thames Ditton RA representative to work out the best way to direct traffic around TD, in a way that would encourage rat runners to stay on the Hampton Court Way or Portsmouth Road.  I am quite happy to leave the people that have put themselves forward as our representatives to, well, represent us.

I keep on listing all the traffic problems on Station Road  in this Forum because I would never forgive myself if someone got injured etc on Station Road and I had seen all the dangerous things that have been happening, but had kept them to myself.  Voicing the dangerous things that I see happening would  at least gives me a clear conscience if, God forbid, an accident did happen.  This probably explains why I would like to know if RA reps are on the Forum reading our posts and maybe commenting too. 

I am not a pub person Juninho - I don't drink.  But I think its great that you keep on trying to get everyone together.    :D


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on October 30, 2013, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: mg on October 29, 2013, 10:30:39 PM
...I do wonder when Admin says that the one way system has already been discussed and it didn't prove popular - who discussed it and how were the opinions garnered? 


It along with many other issues was raised and discussed at an Open meeting attended by over 85 residents.  Then it was discussed in working groups comprising representatives of roads, when they could be persuaded to put themselves forward, who were expected to consult their roads.  It was discussed on this website.  Then it was mooted by Surrey Highways when they took the consultation on, including two open presentations in the Library, one out of working hours, one in working hours; Both presentations were widely advertised beforehand, including on this website.  it was discussed by the businesses in the High St at a meeting (in the Guide Hut) with Peter Hickman, our county councillor.

Then during the formal county consultation on the measures that seemed to have majority support, it was open to any resident, as it is now, to make objections to the limited measures on Watts Road that were put forward, which may be viewed in the pdf diagrams to which the parking page links/linked or on Surrey's website.

Of course, in this as with any other measure, individual residents whose views are different may not accept the outcome. 

I'm all for residents expressing differing views and engaging themselves in work on the street.  For example, if you have proposals for Station Road then you might first consult all the residents of Station road, e.g. by a questionnaire, before considering whether there is support to take a matter further with Surrey Highways dept.  The next stage would be a visit from a traffic engineer and if the proposal seemed a starter, wider consultation again (where e.g. this website and forum could play a role) leading to the formal process of written consultation with the road by SCC and adoption if there is majority support.  The last such proposal, extending yellow lines near the Old Manor, was dropped when a majority of Station Road respondents objected to it.

By the way, I thought Station Road worked better with those little traffic lights recently.  It's also working better when cars and trade vehicles don't park on both sides of the road.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on October 30, 2013, 11:46:17 AM
I assume by that you mean alcohol as opposed to not drinking at all! ;)

And fair enough = but pubs do sell non alcoholic drinks too (and the food is not bad in the Swan/Red Lion/ etc)... !

Anyways I won't push it but the door is open on the other thread!!

Quote from: mg on October 29, 2013, 10:30:39 PM
I am not a pub person Juninho - I don't drink.  But I think its great that you keep on trying to get everyone together.    :D



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 30, 2013, 02:28:26 PM
Hi Keith - I have never wanted to be a "political" representative and make it a policy to leave it to people who, through putting themselves up for office, show that they obviously want to do the role.  I consider professionally designing a questionnaire and going down Station Road with it, to be a job for people who have, without being pressurised, put themselves forward to represent the people in their "constituency".    I don't think I am good enough to represent residents and therefore wouldn't dream of putting myself forward to do so.  I certainly am not qualified to design a meaningful questionnaire.  I would go to open meetings though.

I am quite happy posting any obvious problems that occur down Station Road and voice any possible solutions - but that is all.  I would also fill in a professional questionnaire.  I know that all these problems have been discussed in great length before, but as I keep on saying, so much has changed down Station Road.  Residents have moved out/in and the traffic/parking situation has changed dramatically.  Also, as stated before,  double yellow lines were only suggested for outside the Manor House.  Maybe residents should be consulted again.  Maybe residents would want everything to stay the same or for things to change - I don't know.

I certainly do AGREE that the small traffic lights have helped, but only at that point in the road.  Unfortunately, the traffic lights are making traffic at the point on Station Road where I live (ie nearer the Station end)  more aggressive, and drive more on the pavement, in order to try and get to the lights before they turn red (heading from the station to the village centre).

Is there such a thing as kerb edging, which would stop lorries being able to drive along the pavement? 

I was doing my front garden yesterday evening and lorries were (yet again) driving fast along the pavement.  I couldn't help but envisage a child stepping out of his front garden and getting hit by a lorry or van.  Children wouldn't anticipate lorries driving along the pavement.

Maybe there isn't a solution to all the problems.  I'll just keep posting things as I see them and let the people who are our representatives do what they think is best.

Do any Thames Ditton RA representatives post on, or look at, this Forum?





Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Keith on October 30, 2013, 02:46:14 PM
I'm not putting myself forward for any kind of office, either, mg.  The Residents' Association is you, me, us - the residents.  What you make of it.  It's not some them-and-us organisation.  It's people who are prepared to put some time and thought into things that affect the village.

I certainly have been prepared to give time to legwork on many occasions, although after eight years I feel it's now time for others to do it.  That way, you really do get learn about the problems rather than leaving it all up to other people.

Yes, things change and it may be that Station Road has particular problems and that some easing of those problems is to be had that doesn't simply shift them elsewhere.  The professionals who know (and who also know the detailed regulations etc.) are the traffic engineers of Surrey.

On Watts Road by the way, some distant bell is ringing at the back of my head concerning its status as a B-road and through route, but I can't remember what it was.

And yes, most of the RA committee read the forum and some comment here.



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on October 30, 2013, 02:46:57 PM
they have these in Henley to stop driving on pavaments:

(http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/media/photos/150811/main/Bollards%201.jpg)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Keith on October 30, 2013, 03:03:45 PM
We have those outside Hawes in the high St, and at the Church Rd end of Ashley Road.  Trouble is, they are so often knocked over by careless motorists....

For any obstacles that take width off the pavement, there are some constraints (for passage of wheelchairs etc).

A Surrey Highways official would seem to be the way forward - to visit and to see the problem at first hand, assuming that it is frequent enough to be reproducible, and indicate what practical measures might be feasible.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 30, 2013, 03:21:21 PM
Thanks Craigmax for posting the picture of the kerb posts.  They would be ideal.

Keith, I am not sure that having a village/town run by a collective is actually a good idea.  When I vote for the RA in the elections am I really voting for myself and everyone in Thames Ditton to get together and make decisions on EVERY SINGLE aspect of the running of Thames Ditton?  That does not seem feasible.  I am freely admitting that I am not capable of being a representative for the village.  That does not make me any less of a Thames Ditton resident.  It only makes me an honest one.  I wonder if there are any other Thames Ditton residents who would also admit that they are not capable of being a representative for the village?  If there are, that means that the Residents Association is, in fact, voted into power by the residents of the village, but is definitely not "you, me, us - the residents".  Does that mean that if I am not capable of being a representative for the people of Thames Ditton I should certainly not vote for the RA in any future elections?

Hopefully Surrey Highways officials will look into putting those bollards onto the pavement in order to stop lorries driving along it.  They might save a life one day if they do.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on October 30, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
Why not just park your car where vehicles normally ride up onto the pavement? If it creates a pinch point then so be it. There are no parking restrictions to prevent you doing this - in fact it might encourage them to be implemented. At least you have taken some ownership of the problem rather than just standing back grumbling and hoping someone else will deal with it.

Were the problem annoying me so much I would represent my street and at least canvas the idea of another consultation with other residents on the road to see if it is even worth undertaking before demanding further resources are committed. It a simple yes/no proposition, no need to design a questionnaire. I would also take the time to write directly to Surrey Highways and supply them with photographic evidence so that at least my voice was heard in the right place.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on October 30, 2013, 03:41:59 PM
ratty -'I agree, on Watts Road, I may now Parkman the kerb, although its a quite high kerb.

Craig - I agree, the bollards would be good and they also me of the seaside aswell. I also like seeing cobblestones - this village is on the river so why don't we enhance the connection, more bollards would be good.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 30, 2013, 03:51:59 PM
Unfortunately the cars on Station Road all seem to park on one side of the street - if I park my car outside of my house on the opposite side of the road from the park cars, thus stopping the lorries from going onto the pavement, I would also be stopping  traffic from travelling through Thames Ditton full stop.  When I have been the first person to leave my car outside of my house in the morning, when no other cars are parked on Station Road at all, the commuters totally disregard my car and park opposite it anyway.  Thus blocking up the road.  Unfortunately, if there were traffic problems caused by this situation who would actually know, that I had parked my car first?  I couldn't prove that all the commuter parkers were, in fact, the inconsiderate people in the situation.

I have posted photographs on this forum, of cars driving on the pavement along Station Road, Ratty, and has Keith has informed us, the RA reps do read this forum and post on this forum.  Therefore, the people who have been voted in by the majority of the Thames Ditton residents to represent the residents of Thames Ditton, do know about all the problems and have seen photographic evidence.  I feel it is quite appropriate to leave the rest of the duties required to overcome any problems on Station Road, to the people who have been voted to represent me/us.

ps.  Ratty, since you now know about all of the problems please feel free to contact the relevant depts/people if you want to.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 30, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
Hi Keith -  I was just wondering if the RA reps post on the Forum under their own name or do they do so  anonymously?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Thames Dittonite on October 30, 2013, 04:27:30 PM
How about some affirmative action.
Why don't we, the residents of Station Road agree some dates where we will randonly park our cars on the road and hence starve the commuters of spaces. 
Once the commuters find it difficult to park and miss a train a few times they will soon stop seeing Thames Ditton as a cheap and convenient commuter option..................


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on October 30, 2013, 05:12:56 PM
for the record, I'm not sure if bollards are a good idea or not (I just posted picture as a suggestion) , I simply havent had time to read all the threads top ascertain how I feel other than at the moment I don't feel there is a huge problem, that said, I don't live on Station road and might feel differently if I did.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 31, 2013, 02:01:42 PM
It is great that everyone is making suggestions whether they would work or not, but Thames Dittonite, I'm afraid I feel that your idea is a bit "Heath Robinson" for what could be, or is, a serious traffic problem and a potential safety issue. 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on October 31, 2013, 03:11:36 PM
it could actually work though, if you all did it randomly on odd days. That said, it would probably just displace the commuters somewhere else.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 31, 2013, 05:04:24 PM
Thames Dittonite's plan also assumes that people who live on Station Road don't drive to work.  Unfortunately, I have to drive and I leave about 7.30.  So most days I couldn't do it.  I do feel that there should be a more non ad hoc method of stopping lorries driving on a pavement.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Dictun Mearc on October 31, 2013, 06:16:11 PM
Given that driving on the pavement is illegal (it's contrary to the Highways Act 1835), perhaps it would be worth speaking to your local police (contact details here: http://www.surrey.police.uk/my-neighbourhood/elmbridge/meet-the-borough-team), to ask if they could direct some effort towards enforcing the law in this area?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on October 31, 2013, 08:05:14 PM
I think if there was a police person standing watching the traffic, the cars/vans/lorries probably wouldn't drive on the pavement.  I think it needs to be investigated by non-uniformed personnel at first.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on October 31, 2013, 09:42:19 PM
Thames Dittonite - not a bad plan, why don't you start with days starting with a T!

Secondly, why don't you park on the kerb to see if it becomes best practice. There are loads of places where kerb parking happens, usually with indicated with a dotted line and blue sign with a pic of car on a kerb.

Yellow lines is the answer - so what if the entire doesn't want, surely then the questionnaire knows which houses would like it and there would be I imagine three or four houses next to each other than could get then go to the council to get it done. At least then we can see if its effective or not.

I don't how much it cost by having laying lines but I'm sure the house owners on station road can afford contribution they will I'm sure get it back in their house price going up. I know not a main driver. The thing about displacing the commuters is that they should be using Ashley Road car-park anyhow


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 01, 2013, 08:03:08 AM
Good job we all know that Blue Sky is a "made up" character.  Whoever is "behind" him, managed to get all the hot topic/ button pressing issues in their missive - so they obviously have more brains than the character they are behind.  Not so funny though when posting in such a serious forum topic.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 01, 2013, 08:05:49 AM
It has probably got lost in all the interest that his forum topic has generated - but I did ask if the Thames Ditton RA reps post in this forum under their own names or anonymously?  It is important that the readers of this forum know how our representatives are viewing/replying to our RA forum posts.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on November 01, 2013, 08:10:55 AM
I thought admin replied to that? havent got time to look at the mo


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Dictun Mearc on November 01, 2013, 09:02:55 AM
Quote from: mg on October 31, 2013, 08:05:14 PM
I think if there was a police person standing watching the traffic, the cars/vans/lorries probably wouldn't drive on the pavement.   I think it needs to be investigated by non-uniformed personnel at first.


That may well be the case, but given that there is a specific Roads Community Support Officer for the borough (RPCSO Richard Platt), who states that he deals with anything from RTCs to inconsiderate parking, speeding and anti social behaviour involving vehicles, he may well have a solution that doesn't just involve sticking a police officer with a luminous yellow jacket on the road.  Writing an email to elmbridge@surrey.police.uk doesn't take long, and may lead to a long term solution.  (If the police were to recommend bollards for instance, then I'm sure Surrey County Council would listen to them.)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 01, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Thanks Dictum Mearc - reading what you have written, I now think that contacting Richard would indeed be a good idea. 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on November 04, 2013, 09:01:56 AM
Incidentally, at the last Open Meeting the only Station Road issue raised was that of yellow lines, where as you know, proposals to extend them round the Old Manor House choke point were rejected in SCC's formal consultation of road residents by an overwhelming proportion of respondents.

At the Open Meeting, one resident of Station Road reverted to the idea and argued passionately for it.  Another resident of Station Road present then argued equally coherently against it.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 04, 2013, 10:43:55 AM
Admin, you have pointed out the problems with relying on the views of ONLY the people that, for whatever reason, are able to attend the RA evening meetings.  You have perhaps highlighted the skewed views that the people who are able to attend the meetings may portray to the assembled group of residents, as they are ONLY the views of the people who are able to attend the meetings.  (The people who are able to attend meetings may be able to leave work at a reasonable hour, don't work long city hours, do not work in the evening say at a pub/restaurant etc, don't have children, don't work at all eg are retired, don't have to commute long distances  etc etc)

There needs to be a better way of feeding issues and views to the RA reps that is maybe more representative of the cross section of residents that live in Thames Ditton.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on November 04, 2013, 10:48:53 AM
I work in the city and almost every evening, have 3 children and I made it as it was something important to me.

As in my other post, I do take your point and the above isn't meant to sound sarcastic or inflammatory, maybe we need a sort of top 3 important issues section.

If enough people are concerned then they could be brought up in meetings based on those.

Just thinking aloud.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Portmeirion on November 04, 2013, 11:22:31 AM
MG - what are you are going to say the councillors?



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on November 04, 2013, 12:00:20 PM
Hi MG - I have to say something here as I think this is slightly unfair... and I say this as someone who does like the fact you are drawing attention to this issue.

Admin has not really portrayed any views other than that that came out of the consultation AS well as opinions at the RA meeting. I have read back and I can see that Admin has tried to stay neutral whilst still drawing attention to the fact that this issue HAS been raised and discussed. No one is saying it does not merit re-investigation but people have offered suggestions on how to move it forward.

Personally I have not attended a meeting but I have spoken to people who have and the attendees represent a far larger cross section of residents opinions than this forum...

All the data is available for you to check - you only have to click on the 'users' of this forum and sort by posting numbers to realise that at most only a couple of dozen users are active!

That said you do raise a valid point in that not everyone is able to attend the RA meetings.

My suggestion here is to talk to / email someone who does attend to present your issue? Though it would of course be better represented by yourself of course.

And I would strongly suggest canvassing a few of your neighbours to drum up some support that its not just you who percieves this problem. This does not have to entail a professional questionnaire but just a simple conversation. This is how the RA works I understand - it picks up issues that residents (spot the plural there) raise!!

Anyone reading this thread will assume that otherwise it is just your opinion vs a consultation and that would not be fair to anyone.

I take in all that you said and am only posting to give you a way to move forward as this is not moving fast and I seem to recall you raisign the problem about people driving on pavements months ago.



Quote from: mg on November 04, 2013, 10:43:55 AM
Admin, you have pointed out the problems with relying on the views of ONLY the people that, for whatever reason, are able to attend the RA evening meetings.  You have perhaps highlighted the skewed views that the people who are able to attend the meetings may portray to the assembled group of residents, as they are ONLY the views of the people who are able to attend the meetings. 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 04, 2013, 06:10:57 PM
I am sorry if it came across that I was being unfair to Admin - I do realise that he just Admins the Forum and is not responsible for the running of the RA. 

I have only been trying to emphasise how unfair the Thames Ditton RA representation is for many of the residents in Thames Ditton.  I did post a small list of people that it seems unfair to - but I am sure readers can think of many groups of people that are unable to make an evening meeting in order to discuss an issue that they have.  I don't really agree that someone would make the effort to go to the meeting if they feel really strongly about something - work has to come first for lots of people.  Also, single parents would have an issue with childcare, its OK if there are two parents and one can stay in and look after the children.  Also, elderly people do not like to go out of their houses when it is dark, especially if they live on their own and have to walk back to their homes in the dark.

I did like the suggestion by Craigmax that a list of the top 2/3/5 issues could be compiled from the Forum and discussed at the meeting.  Therefore residents who are unable to attend evening meetings for whatever reason could be represented.  I think I have also suggested previously that some meetings should be held during the day and some at the weekend - giving as many people as possible a chance to attend at least one a year.

According to their website, "About Thames Ditton" is delivered to 5,700 houses in our area so if there are on average 2 people per household, that means about 11,000 people. (rough guestimate of population of Thames Ditton and Weston Green I know)  I seem to remember someone saying that 85 people had attended a meeting - I wonder what the average attendance is? 

Maybe changing the time/day of the meetings would encourage some of the above mentioned people to attend the meetings or maybe a way  forward would be to set up a pathway whereby residents can channel problems via a computer to the RA.  This  would widen the input of the residents.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Portmeirion on November 04, 2013, 06:51:12 PM
I suggest you create a separate page MG, this thread is about the road system and improving it.

I still cannot understand why Ashley Road car park is not open - I'm keen to use to it as the parking is driving me mad.



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 22, 2013, 02:08:41 PM
With regards to Station Road - the solution has been created and demonstrated with the works that have commenced today.  Keep the allowed parking outside of the Manor House (as it is today) and put double yellow lines down the rest of Station Road.  Combine this with traffic lights ( in the exact spot where they are positioned are today) and peace has been resumed.  Waiting at the traffic lights was fine and I could drive back home without the anticipation of MEGA STRESS just to get down the road that I live in.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on November 22, 2013, 02:18:29 PM
The car park is shut?

Thats news to me!
Quote from: Portmeirion on November 04, 2013, 06:51:12 PM
I still cannot understand why Ashley Road car park is not open - I'm keen to use to it as the parking is driving me mad.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Thames Dittonite on November 22, 2013, 02:37:17 PM
I totally disagree with mg re Station Road and I too am a resident.  The cars are all belting along at 40/50mph now that the road is clear and in my view this poses much more of a danger than the odd inconsiderate driver mounting the kerb.
I find the commuter parkers annoying (especially when they block my drive) but they act as traffic calming system which we need all the while Station Road is a rat run to Hampton Court Way.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 22, 2013, 03:36:29 PM
Glad to speak to a fellow Station Road resident.

I have always thought that the speed humps down Station Road were too small and ineffectual.  Maybe if we had higher speed humps, like the ones near to Esher BR Station, we could have the perfect solution of SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC and a COMMUTER PARKING FREE ROAD. 

I also agree that it is important to deter cars from using Station Road as a rat run and I think that the various "pinch spots" ie Watts Road and outside of the Manor House are good in that respect (but it is illegal for a road system to "require" cars to travel on the pavement").  We should have some "man-made" pinch spots down the road, chicanes would be good,  but you must agree that our road looks so much nicer without all the park cars.

It is so nice to see Station Road back to how it was before the FREELOADERS arrived!!!


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Deborah on November 22, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
Is parking on a public road "freeloading"? I don't park on Station Rd., but have never considered myself a freeloader when I'm parking my car.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 22, 2013, 05:19:49 PM
I am only talking about commuters who choose to park along Station Road for the day, instead of going elsewhere and paying for a car parking place near to a BR Station.  They have chosen to come and park here, on our local roads, rather than pay to park.

I still can't understand why we are the only area for miles,  by a BR Station, who haven't put the welfare of the local residents before commuter parkers. 

Yes, I do think it is freeloading to park a car for the WHOLE day FOR FREE - taking up spaces  that local residents could use to visit friends, relatives, take children to and from school,  take toddlers to playgroup, visit the dentist and even visit the High Street for shopping.  Commuter parkers have stopped local residents, that used to park on Station Road for the aforementioned reasons, from doing so.  Casual parking for those reasons worked out just fine and never caused any problems for the residents.    Driving from outside of Thames Ditton to use our local roads as free car parks is just not on.

I am not on my own in believing this - just think about the local areas which have put a stop to commuter parking - Surbiton, Kingston, New Malden, Wimbledon, Teddington, Richmond, Twickenham, Hampton Court.  I am sure that the list goes on and on and on ..................................


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on November 22, 2013, 05:48:23 PM
(http://www.omsmedia.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/kid-head-slap.jpg)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Deborah on November 22, 2013, 05:54:43 PM
MG - Not sure I agree with your views on who should be allowed to park and who not. How would this be policed? Should the majority of local people not be walking or cycling to the village centre? I also wonder how many of the commuter cars are villagers who could have walked/cycled to the station. Are you saying you would drive past free parking and go and pay for it, not to be seen as a "freeloader"?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Shamwari on November 22, 2013, 07:23:21 PM
How lucky we are to have commuters helping to keep our station open.  Yes cars parked all day can be annoying, particularly if they happen to be outside your house, but we have so much to be grateful for.  I would hate to live on a red route, a road covered in yellow lines (I still don't understand why there are double yellows on the 'parking bay' cut out next to Basingfield Road), parking meters, permit holder only parking, the list goes on.

The short lengths of yellow lines on Watts Road are perfect, why not have a few on Station Road on the bend near the dentist .... that has to be one of the most annoying places that people park, blocks the whole village!!



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 22, 2013, 07:31:11 PM
Yep Deborah - I have never parked all day, for free, on a residential street.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 22, 2013, 07:34:27 PM
Ratty have you posted a photo of a child, whose parent can't park on Station Road when they are taking him to playgroup or nursery, because it is full of Freeloading Commuter Parkers?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on November 22, 2013, 07:48:50 PM
Nope!


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on November 22, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
If you need to slow traffic, it's simple but some lights in - get rid of that lollipop man and get bumps not ramps.

Towards the high street put a zebra crossing in - I agree with MG it's a lot better but if you wish to change you must enforce the law so just change the speed limit to 20mph and puts lots of signs up. In London people don't speed around, like here because there is more police about - this is quite easy to solve aswell, put cameras in.

MG - suggest you get a surrey road person to view the current situation.  I may or may not have a connection with the council but does it matter, I'm a resident of 20 years.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Sue P on November 25, 2013, 09:06:38 PM
Well Esher station car park is full.  So rail travellers park along Ember Lane and in the residential streets off that road for free and all along the Weston Green half of WG Road and beyond into Chestnut Avenue.  So it is not just Thames Ditton residents who can complain about all day parking outside their houses.  It seems to me that there are too many cars and not enough space for us all.  After all I suppose those people who are using the stations are doing so to get to their jobs, support their families and pay their bills. Pretty much like the rest of us.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 25, 2013, 09:25:52 PM
I agree Sue the whole of this area really does need to sort out this commuter parking as a whole, altogether. 

What I would like to know is HOW do people who have to get to the BR Stations in Surbiton, Kingston, New Malden, Raynes Park, Wimbledon, Richmond etc etc  actually get there.

They got to the BR Stations when they were allowed to park near to them and then, when Resident Parking Only Bays were introduced, lo and behold, they still managed to get to their trains.  They  DO manage to get to these stations and they can't park for free anywhere remotely near to them. 

Introducing Residents Only Parking in ALL those areas has not stopped people getting to their trains and getting to their employment.  Do you think they just found other ways to get to the stations?  Or do they all drive to areas which still allow people to park for free near to a BR Station ie our area? 

I think most of them found other ways to get to the BR stations and some drive to block the roads in our area.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 25, 2013, 09:34:43 PM
By the way along Station Road, not only have the cones and traffic lights restored the road to what it used to be like pre-commuter parking, but they have actually cut down on traffic, noise and general chaos more than I could have imagined anything would ever do.

Commuter parking creates stress, chaos and anger in drivers and for residents down Station Road.  It has been really bad and it is so wonderful to be free of this.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on November 25, 2013, 10:29:00 PM
I agree station road is greatly improved as is quality of life.

There are few runty commuters who are still causing trouble along Watts, if that road can introduce cones I think we will see an amazing change!

Sue P. - the Jolly Boatman site will be constructing a massive improvement to station parking for this area, it has two storey car parking and I hope people can have season tickets, I look forward having a coffee or other in the hotel sometimes after work.

Thames Ditton is a commuter village, what is the problem walking to the station - I Reckon anywhere in the village is no more than a 7 minute walkaway.  The majority of people in wimbledon either walk or take a bus. Does thames Ditton have cycle storage?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on November 26, 2013, 08:54:12 AM
Blue Sky mentioning the Jolly Boatman has reminded me that Thames Ditton still needs to come up with a plan for when the Station at Hampton Court is not accessible during the building works.

The solution for additional traffic and parking that this period will cause is with us already.  Keep the traffic lights where they are now and have a period of no parking down Station Road (and any other road near to the Station that would like to try no parking).  That would give all the residents of these roads a chance to try this present situation for a lengthy period of time but with the option, by discussion and maybe vote, for residents to go back to the position of parking and no traffic lights when Hampton Court Station is re-opened.

The traffic lights need to be included in the package because they are definitely cutting down on traffic passing through the village and the queuing traffic is not causing the anger and stress that commuter parking causes. 

The situation at Hampton Court BR Station is the perfect chance (and genuine need) to try out this traffic and parking solution for Station Road for a good length of time.  We need to jump at the chance to try this out, even if the majority of residents would like to go back to the "allowed parking and no traffic lights" when the trial period is over.  We will at least have tried it and been given the option.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on November 29, 2013, 08:49:02 AM
MG - I think you are absolutely relight that lights regulate the traffic much better, there is still a pinch point at high street / George and dragon, I'm not sure what can be done there, perhaps a longer yellow line outside Hjc. The lights will help.

I wish well with your efforts and hope that lights are used - it's good to pause once and while in car anyhow to recap if you have everything you need in the journey etc! 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: speerroadres on December 06, 2013, 07:54:16 PM
Absolute, sheer bl**dy mayhem down Watts Road this evening at 6pm.. traffic backed up to TD station.. gridlock in the village... whilst two motorists sandwiched by the parked cars in Watts Road stand and tough it out as to who was going where... taking ages.. I had to do a 3 point turn to try to get out of it.  A shambles which occurs on a daily basis which could be so easily cured by a bit of regulation... How about no parking in peak times..? Say 7 to 9.30am and 5 till 7pm.. weekdays.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 07, 2013, 09:09:05 AM
Speerrooadres - yes and it's highly annoying.

There are now 3 of us who want this, I'm sure there's more


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 07, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Sorry BlueSky but you can't include me in the count for wanting restricted parking on Watts Road or by the Manor House, especially if this area is taken in, and acted on, isolation from the rest of the village ie Station Road or any other road that is blighted by speeding traffic and parking.

I would NOT want restricted parking without either

a) a better way, than exists presently, of slowing the traffic which comes through our village or
b) a method of cutting the number of cars that comes through our village or
c) something that combines a) and b).

The only thing that I would vote for is (and for anyone that has read all my other posts on this subject stop reading now) the traffic lights by the station and larger speed humps (see post on Station Road if you want to!!!)

Speerroadres - whilst you were able to do a three point turn, we residents of Station Road unfortunately, do not have this option when the traffic backs up.  We are frequently either trapped IN our houses or trapped OUT of our houses. 

This is a very stressful way to live our daily lives!!!





Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 07, 2013, 10:42:39 AM
I agree with Traffic lights.

I agree its a good start to calm traffic down, the other pipe dreams of mine like yellow lines and residents parking may have to come later.  I find the corner of the high street and watts road getting extremely more dangerous, some traffic will help.

Lights will be a brilliant start MG


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on December 07, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
Hopefully the RA will not mind me reproducing this from their magazine in 1971. It seems the traffic conversation has been going on for decades! It is also perhaps a good reminder of how familiar the RA is with the issue, Ruth Lyon having been there from the start!

I guess the popularity of sat-navs means at least ruling out the "maze theory" solution?

(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff485/TDRatty/IMG_6285_zps707f2eca.jpg)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 07, 2013, 01:09:56 PM
Ah Ratty that is absolutely BRILLIANT.  Thanks for posting.  I don't think that the traffic going through Thames Ditton is as great as that going along the Portsmouth Road now - it just feels like it!!!

Seriously, I can't believe that in the last 40 years the traffic problem hasn't been sorted out.  What is also amazing is that in 1971 people were advocating the "maze" system of traffic management.    Certainly true, there aren't many original ideas in this world!!

I think this brilliant post is an amazing reminder that the problem has been going on for far too long.  We should be the generation of Thames Ditton residents that solve the problem in the best possible way.



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on December 07, 2013, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: Ratty on December 07, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
Hopefully the RA will not mind me reproducing this from their magazine in 1971. It seems the traffic conversation has been going on for decades! It is also perhaps a good reminder of how familiar the RA is with the issue, Ruth Lyon having been there from the start!
I guess the popularity of sat-navs means at least ruling out the "maze theory" solution?


Delighted that you've quoted TD Today.  I read them all, and other surviving material, several times over when I took the mag on.  As with some other perennial issues (e.g. drains), revisiting the past shows how intractable many of the problems are, and (as in Ruth's account of the meeting) how many disparate ideas there always are.

In the piece I did on the history (http://residents-association.com/pdfs/consult.pdf) of the Association for the 75th anniversary, there was a longish section on traffic, parking and roads.  For ease of reference, here's the text again:

Highways
Roads, traffic and parking have been major, often intractable, issues.  Faced with lorries and commuters cutting through Thames Ditton to avoid the Scilly isles, in 1970 a traffic census was mounted by volunteers but the authorities seemed more concerned with clearing the roads for more through traffic than in reducing it.  A Surrey proposal to put a connecting road from Portsmouth Road to Station Road, demolishing the George and Dragon, was seen off.  There followed a series of battles to get Surrey to implement the 1973 Heavy Commercial Vehicles Act by restricting lorries over three tons from the Thames Ditton 'triangle' - and also to press businesses in the Woodlands in Weston Green to restrict voluntarily the movement of HGVs to one agreed route.  Finally, in August 1980 an order was made to ban heavy lorries from passing the railway arches at Thames Ditton station.  Further operations were mounted to monitor, witness, photograph and report to the police the many lorries whose drivers ignored it.

Parking has also been a long-running issue.  In 1971 Ashley Rd car park was established and a year later there were proposals to remove cars parked against the wall of the Home of Compassion, which had caused accidents and one fatality. In 1974 the Association resisted draconian police action to ticket cars parked along the High Street,  noting that: "...a degree of parking in the High St.,  by slowing down and discouraging through traffic, contributes to its safety.....one of the great benefits of the village both to customers and to shopkeepers is that it is still possible to briefly park and shop."  The problem of  all-day parkers became  increasingly serious throughout the 1980s: there was a colourful leaflet campaign to get them to use the car park, with support from local shopkeepers and High St residents who contributed campaign expenses. 

In 1992 the Islanders petitioned for speed humps in Summer Road; they even raised £600 which would pay for one hump! The Association asked Elmbridge to look at traffic calming measures, and also to prevent commuter parking in Basingfield Rd and Lower Green Rd.  Elmbridge carried out a traffic study, but action was deferred while Surrey & Elmbridge considered the issue of parking enforcement following decriminalisation of parking offences.  After three years of study, debate and public consultation, controversial speed bumps were installed in 2001, and the 20mph zone in 2003, with a dramatic reduction in accidents.  An amended parking scheme, however, ran into difficulties.  In Weston Green, suggestions to restrict parking near Esher station led to such a wide area being concerned about displacement of parked cars that a scheme was judged unworkable.  In Thames Ditton any scheme not only had to be self-financing but needed to take into account the interests of all residents, including the Islanders, who kept their cars in the area.  Moreover, responsibility for Highways was now taken on by Surrey from Elmbridge, and the Association observed that it was "extremely difficult for our councillors and officers to get access to Surrey's Highways department."  With a Residents' Association County Councillor (Peter Hickman)  elected for the first time in 2005, parking was back on the agenda.  The Association carried out a further major exercise to consult residents in 2006-2007, and after reconnaissance work by Surrey and extensive official public consultation, the formulation of a parking scheme again ran into difficulties.  Residents' interests as well as those of retail and other businesses, commuters, office workers, and parents using cars for the school run, were too often competing and incompatible.  The budget and the allotted time was exhausted before conclusion.  As of Autumn 2009, the consultation will be renewed over the next few months under a new Surrey official.

Roads
The publicly-owned commons are an obvious easy route for any strategic planner charged with building a road or railway link from South-West London, crossing the Thames by the reservoirs to link up with roads now established on the north bank and connecting with Heathrow and the motorway system.  There were such proposals in 1966 ('Link Road') and again in 1971 ('Ringway 3') and 1975: the 'inner orbital route' - a four lane highway to relieve the river crossings at Hampton Court and Walton.  Again in the early 1990s, the HASQUAD (Heathrow and Southwest London Quadrant) proposals to build a new motorway to Heathrow would have destroyed the commons round Weston Green and made Thames Ditton's roads worse rat-runs.  Each time such proposals were aired, the Association spent an enormous amount of effort working in conjunction with like-minded organisations to research, consult the public, expose Surrey's Chief Engineer to public meetings and lobby against.  To date, that these efforts have succeeded owes as much to the enormous costs of the projects, and occasionally timely economic recession as to the consideration of officials and Ministers.  Plans for a third runway at Heathrow are likely, sooner or later, to place a through route across the commons back in the frame. Other Association activities on highways over the years included a very long and ultimately fruitful campaign to improve safety along Hampton Court Way. 


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 07, 2013, 06:37:42 PM
Very interesting indeed Admin.  Presumably, with Thames Ditton's long history of the same old  traffic problems and the amount of relating research that seems to be documented in your article, there must be quite a wad of statistical information relating to traffic numbers etc.  It would be very illuminating  and informative if we could get hold of this body of research and compare the stats then, with the volume of traffic and parked cars affecting the residents of Thames Ditton today.

If we could prove to Surrey that  traffic and commuter parking was a problem way back in the 1970s, and they only had xxx number of parked cars and passing traffic numbers,  we could then progress with our argument along the lines of ...  "now look at the situation in Thames Ditton - car ownership has increased greatly in recent years and now we have got xxx  number of parked cars and passing traffic number" 

If the traffic situation was as bad as it says in both the articles mentioned in this thread, we could increase this "badness" by the statistical amount the traffic has increased since these articles were written.  Badness multiplied by X .  (where X stands for the increase in traffic and parked cars). There has to come a point when the situation has just become "as bad as it can get" and maybe statistics might prove  that time has come!! (or they might prove that the number of cars has stayed just the same since the 1970s and things in Thames Ditton are just equally as bad as they were then!!)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on December 08, 2013, 08:50:59 AM
Absolutely brilliant reading! I only wished I had read the article by Ruth yestreday - as she was at the ra meeting last night and it would have been lovely to speak to her to get her thoughts on it today!

And as alluded above -> Substitute sat navs for the compasses (though I suspect the compass reference may have been a little toungue in cheek) and you would not even know it was written 42 years ago!

Interesting reading also admin re the islanders paying for a bump. Presumably one close to the swan to slow traffic down there so people can cross?

One thing that I don't see as discussed in these somewhat car centric threads (though as always it's covered in the past) is more pedestrian crossings...

I know, I know... They need a certain amount of space and for example much as I'd like one close to the swan being a little bit of blind corner it might actually pose a hazard...

Whilst I am not convinced by some of the thoughts / solutions around traffic calming ... I would happily support more pedestrian crossings in our village...


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 08, 2013, 09:05:07 AM

I agree Juiinho there should be more zebra crossings.  I personally can think of the need for two by the railway bridge - one for Weston Green Road around the exit of the Station and one where the Lollipop man stands on Station Road.  Good crossing points for pedestrians and would also break up the traffic flow.  Good idea !!

"As of Autumn 2009, the consultation will be renewed over the next few months under a new Surrey official". from Admin's article.  What happened to the results of this (and who was this new Surrey official?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on December 08, 2013, 05:04:57 PM
Sadly it's an idea that I was told cannot work because of regulations around pedestrian crossings... And one that has been thought of before...

I had forgotten why but the response was here:
http://residents-association.com/forum/index.php?topic=293.0

Weston green road seems to have more space though? There might be rules about not being too close to a roundabout but I have seen some awkwardly placed (I.e. just after roundabouts) zebra crossings?


Quote from: mg on December 08, 2013, 09:05:07 AM
I agree Juiinho there should be more zebra crossings.  I personally can think of the need for two by the railway bridge - one for Weston Green Road around the exit of the Station and one where the Lollipop man stands on Station Road.  Good crossing points for pedestrians and would also break up the traffic flow.  Good idea !!

"As of Autumn 2009, the consultation will be renewed over the next few months under a new Surrey official". from Admin's article.  What happened to the results of this (and who was this new Surrey official?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 08, 2013, 06:54:38 PM
Just read the response ref you quoted Juninho - I see what you mean. There is not enough pavement width to put a crossing in by the station on Station Road. 

I think I have thought of a solution that solves traffic and pedestrian problems at this point on Station Road.

Wheelchairs, prams and pedestrians need more pavement space outside of the Alms Houses on Station Road - not less - therefore I can only suggest widening the pavement outside of the Alms Houses on Station Road (which is ridiculously narrow and very dangerous.  When two people pass each other, one of them has to walk on the road).  Also, at this section of road, which has now got narrower with a much wider pavement, one direction of traffic will be given passing priority over the other direction.  At peak time this could mean one direction of traffic will have to wait a long time - which would seriously cut down on the numbers of cars passing down Station Road.

People can cross the road easier, traffic will be less and the section of pavement which at the moment is actually impossible to get a wheelchair along, will be widened to enable disabled access and pram access.  A good, cheap solution


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 08:33:02 AM
you could do this, make it almost single file and make it one of those where one way has priority maybe.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on December 09, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
Here we go again!...

Pedestrian crossing:  see http://residents-association.com/news/school_crossing.php for the long-standing and much mulled-over background on that one.

At the time I informally contacted the almshouses trust but they would not be willing to sell off a strip of this GII listed property to enable the footpath to be widened.

I take it that mg's suggestion now is that the pavement would be widened into the carriageway creating a choke point.

A professional opinion from Surrey Highways' traffic engineers would have to be sought, which I suspect would be that (a) so close to the bridge, with its roundabout traffic and restricted visual lines, a choke point would be impractical/inadvisable/against the regs, and (b) it's a through B road with all that that implies for buses/coaches/heavy vehicles etc.
But that will not stop Peter from asking them.

What does commuterparker think? (qualified person)



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 09, 2013, 10:25:03 AM
Admin - I wish you stop plucking things from the archive,  people are writing here to get things done - I hope you can be constructive rather than devil's advocate all the time.

Having zebra crossing half way down station road and watts road would be good - admin I presume your main aim is to improve lifestyles?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
I don't think Admin is doing anything untoward here? Merely providing case history of areas that have been covered (in detail it seems) in the past.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 09, 2013, 10:56:19 AM
Hi Admin

I am not sure that someone who has a Forum name of "commuter parker" is really the person to add to this debate!!!

I did mean that the road should be narrowed and the pavement widened, at the point where it is barely suitable for one person to walk on safely if possible, but anywhere in that area would be good.

If priority was given to cars coming from the village the cars queuing from the Hampton Court Way would be by the bus stop and even The Vera Fletcher Hall , so not in front of houses.  There would have to be yellow box areas under the bridge to stop traffic coming from the Hampton Court Way blocking the route around from Weston Green Road.  

Am trying to think how this could be made to work without causing blockage.  Can anyone suggest anything?

(Am now thinking traffic lights figure in the equation again - sorry about that - but a traffic light system has got to be the answer.)


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on December 09, 2013, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: BlueSky on December 09, 2013, 10:25:03 AM
Admin - I wish you stop plucking things from the archive,  people are writing here to get things done - I hope you can be constructive rather than devil's advocate all the time.

Having zebra crossing half way down station road and watts road would be good - admin I presume your main aim is to improve lifestyles?

In my view it is wise to look at things in the perspective of what has been researched and tried before, rather than go around in circles.

So I shall continue to present the background to situations that remain current or become current again, thanks all the same


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on December 09, 2013, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: mg on December 09, 2013, 10:56:19 AM
Hi Admin

I am not sure that someone who has a Forum name of "commuter parker" is really the person to add to this debate!!!


All those with connections to and interests in the village are welcome members of the forum.  commuterparker is a qualified and experienced  traffic engineer, with knowledge of regulations and practices, and therefore able to add a professional and informed perspective to debates on traffic and highways matters - and has done so, several times.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on December 09, 2013, 11:21:23 AM
Definitely a three pipe problem!


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Evergreen on December 09, 2013, 11:21:51 AM
Admin, I am really grateful for the time and patience you give to this forum.  Please ignore the moaners and carry on with the good work.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
what Evergreen said.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Juninho on December 09, 2013, 11:40:26 AM
Well said evergreen.

Revisiting old threads / discussions is massively useful when covering issues which have been discussed before (in fact in my post I referenced the fact it has been covered).

Why would someone object to this? Someone (in this case Admin) is actually taking the time to help us by digging out the correct references.

It saves time and covers any known issues/problems etc. and it allows an issue to be moved forward much quicker.

For people who don't want to re-read old threads or even have them posted up I would suggest that they are not actually looking for a solution at all - merely posting to have a moan/complain or perhaps just to try and antaganise other users of this forum (trolling is the slang for this).
Quote from: Evergreen on December 09, 2013, 11:21:51 AM
Admin, I am really grateful for the time and patience you give to this forum.  Please ignore the moaners and carry on with the good work.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Ratty on December 09, 2013, 12:06:51 PM
Ditto.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 12:20:13 PM
Can we talk about Station road a bit more please.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Deborah on December 09, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
No please don't!


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 04:08:15 PM
:D


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 09, 2013, 05:11:34 PM
Hi Deborah - just interested in why you don't want the residents of Thames Ditton to discuss the traffic problems in Station Road anymore?

The road is so important to the residents of the whole of Thames Ditton who presumably have to drive down the road at some point during the year (if not monthly, weekly or daily) and it certain is very important to the residents of Station Road.

If there was a problem with the road you lived in and I was "bored?" with reading about it I wouldn't tell you to stop posting about your problem, I just wouldn't read the posts?

I am seriously interested in why you don't want us to discuss Station Road?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 09, 2013, 05:27:35 PM
Admin - Although I can thoroughly understand that anyone from anywhere in the world is free to post on this forum - it just seems insensitive, that you, as the "filter" of the  Residents' Association on-line presence and forum,  would suggest asking the opinion of someone who, by their Forum name,  "Commuter Parker", suggests themselves to be a big part of the commuter parking problem on Station Road.  A problem which is a huge factor in this forum thread ie the massive traffic queues along Watts Road and Station Road whenever a tiny hiccup occurs in the passage of traffic through the village.

The "filter" or "Admin" of the Forum suggesting that the Residents' Association and residents of Station Road ask "Commuter Parker", one of the group of people who is part of the cause of a major problem along Station Road, for his/her "unbiased" opinions is a bit strange really!  I would be surprised if "Commuter Parker" suggested the best option for the problem would be to ban Commuter Parking ?!?!  I may be doing him/her a grave injustice and if so I apologise .

Have we not got a traffic engineer who at the very least lives in Thames Ditton?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Deborah on December 09, 2013, 06:34:26 PM
To be really blunt. I have never had a problem driving on Station Rd. The only roads I have had a problem with are the High Street and Watts Rd, and even then a bit of patience on everyones part deals with it. I also believe that you should take some direct action yourself and canvass your neighbours views. You don't need a professional questionnaire to do this. I live on Longmead Rd and wrote a questionnaire to get views on the proposed use of a piece of land. Nearly half the road responded and lots of people knocked on my door, and neighbours had conversations in the street. This was not a professional questionnaire. I was then able to let the RA committee know peoples views, attend a meeting to pass on their views and encourage the residents to comment on the consultation. The RA committee are volunteers and most of them are working full time. They really don't have the time to be dealing with individual streets issues, without some help from people who live in those streets. After all the RA are the residents of Thames Ditton and Weston Green.

May I also say I do not believe admin filters the forum. Again please do remember admin is a volunteer. He also will not have the resources to "filter" who joins the forum. We really must stop criticising people who are volunteering on our behalf. Personally I'm very grateful for the job admin does.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 09, 2013, 06:35:36 PM
I agree, MG it was a strange choice.

Admin - have you been doing this job toooo long or just need a holiday!  Having worked for a couple of ftse 100 companies, I understand that as an organisation this RA has to be a little stronger in the way it's deals with issues. When I say stronger I mean decisive, forward-looking and managing for its own good I.e for its residents not commuters

I can't understand, why we have this forum when there never seems to be any changes or even trials with things, people seem to argue and go no where. For instance if people of station road parked on both sides of the road, then I think surrey police will soon hear about the problems there and seek yellow lines or lights.



Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 09, 2013, 08:37:37 PM
Hi Deborah,  as I have said before in this Forum,  just because people can type a thread post, does not mean that they are able to do a questionnaire or to physically canvas their neighbours.  I didn't say that I wasn't grateful for Admin doing his job - I think he does a great job and should only carry on doing the job if he is happy doing it and has the time to do it.

I do feel that IF the job of representing the residents of Thames Ditton is too difficult for someone to do properly, ie they have too demanding a job, are very busy working full time,  have a lot of family responsibilities, have poor health or other pressures or responsibilities, then they must not put themselves forward to represent the residents of Thames Ditton.  They should not volunteer.  It is not at all fair on them and it is not fair on the residents.  Our committee have put themselves up for the job and were not forced to. 

I am not saying that they are doing a bad job, not at all, but it must be remembered that they wanted to do the role  and as soon as they feel unhappy doing it, they should stop doing it.

The people representing the residents should at least have the time/energy/health to walk down a few roads and ask for the views  of residents. 

Not many people read this Forum and as you have already said, many people around here are too busy doing full-time jobs to do anything more than work or sleep.  How can the views of residents be judged if the only ones known are the views on this Forum and ...................... nothing else???


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Admin on December 09, 2013, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: BlueSky on December 09, 2013, 06:35:36 PM
I agree, MG it was a strange choice.

Admin - have you been doing this job toooo long or just need a holiday!  Having worked for a couple of ftse 100 companies, I understand that as an organisation this RA has to be a little stronger in the way it's deals with issues. When I say stronger I mean decisive, forward-looking and managing for its own good I.e for its residents not commuters

I can't understand, why we have this forum when there never seems to be any changes or even trials with things, people seem to argue and go no where. For instance if people of station road parked on both sides of the road, then I think surrey police will soon hear about the problems there and seek yellow lines or lights.



Well you know, I have been asking myself the same question.

I set up this forum and got involved with the magazine, devoting quite a bit of my time to both, in order to improve the flow of informqation both ways.

But I am beginning to think that I have better things to do.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Deborah on December 09, 2013, 10:47:22 PM
I think its about time that MG and Blue Sky stop being repetitive and now so insulting! None of the residents association reps get any pay. Admin virtually works full time on this and the mag.

MG, you only ever get out of something what you put in. At the present moment in time it appears to me you are not contributing. Maybe you should consider as a number of people have said, putting some effort in to what you percieve as a problem.

MG and Blue Sky are dragging down the forum, and turning people away from it. Soon we won't have any forum if this continues.

Personally I'm very happy with the representation, and have always been listened to. The open meetings are there for you to attend and present your views. If you dont think the resident reps are representing you, you do have the choice of transferring your allegiances to one of the political parties who stand in the local elections.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 09, 2013, 11:18:29 PM
I'm frankly amazed its taken Admin this long to post something like above.

The pertinent fact that seems to consistently be missed by some users is that the RA representatives give up their time and efforts FREE. Admin puts a huge amount of work in, just looking at this forum alone,  look at the number of users most mornings, sometimes as high as 500 or more, mainly spammers who all have to be gone through and systematically deleted when they are found to be non genuine.

If you have ever bothered to attend a meeting, the level of time on issues that these people put into researching and speaking out about on behalf of us all is staggering at times, given that it's in their free time and very often doesn't affect them directly at all.

The forum and RA are effectively a platform for all of US, but the representatives aren't our employees, they do what they do because they care about the village and it's residents but they aren't here to be lambasted when things aren't to our liking and if that continues to be the case, as has been said, the likely net result is that the forum disappears or descends into an anarchic rant which it has at times come close to.

Bluesky, I'm sure you're doing backflips that you seem to have found a pal in mg, I must admit, on rare occasions I find myself agreeing with you on the odd issue however, we have crossed metaphorical swords before, usually when you have resorted to personal attack in an effort to provoke a rise from me. There is nothing wrong with being vocal and free speech is very important but you frequently cross the line in making your points. It's uncalled for and unnecessary here.

MG, clearly and understandably Station Road is important to you as you live there and it affects you more than most but you really need to make a choice, do something about it through questionnaire or whatever means, or  stop bringing up the same argument which as seems to have been proven over the years, to not have a solution (yet).

I've said it before, I'm sure we all want the best for the village and all it's residents, we live in a truly special and largely unique place. We have a longstanding and successful RA with hardworking, intelligent and truly caring representatives, lets not wreck it eh?


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 09, 2013, 11:38:31 PM
Craig - you speak well again, lm just perhaps suggesting that admin may like a break or help with all this. Maybe an admin.no.2

I think admin is doing a good job but we all need support, even the Topman in the sky does!

Churchill did not run the country on his own, it seems to me admin could delegate some decisions out. If commuterparker is a professional, let him be the road-admin and hopefully us villagers can see some change Happening.

Sorry admin, lm not being offensive l just would luv to see some improvement


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: Walker2 on December 10, 2013, 07:57:59 AM
Well said craigvmax
and I am one of many residents who have been alienated from the forum by the repetitive bleating of a few posters who  seem to be seeking attention rather than contributing usefully  and civilly to discussions. Now I'm here again I must say that I do not agree with most of mg's statements or blueskies who have been given very good answers, and helpfuI advice but who always reject it and expect others to work to please their own views while they won't do any work themselves even to see whether their views are shared by anyone  else in their roads.

IMHO it is ridiculous to try to prevent a qualified traffic engineer from being asked to advise on regulations if only he or she was willing which seeing the tone here I doubt, just because of their username which is described as "insensitive" by a poster here who shows little "sensitivity" except to their own opinions.

Thanks to the RA for making all your efforts and I am amazed at your patience. Forgive me for writing in this way but l would like to see the forum get back to its past usefulness and goodwill, and not be monopolised by two or three chronic moaners.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 10, 2013, 09:06:43 AM
This Forum is the place for people to put forward their HONEST views about living in the village - does the Residents' Association only want people in their Association who will keep quiet and not voice their opinions?  If so, then SAY SO.

The Residents' Association should represent everyone in the village, that means young, old, able, disabled, people that keep their opinions to themselves and people who voice their opinions, working people, stay at home people, single people, married with kids people, black, white, multi-ethnic etc etc etc. 

Reading this Forum, it seems that  the ONLY people who are represented by the Residents' Association and people defending them, are the people who can do things for themselves ie the ABLE people. 

If the Residents' Association is only set up to represent the ABLE people then it should SAY SO. 

I am confident that it is a misrepresentation of the Residents' Association to say that they only want people supporting them who are ABLE and will not voice their opinions.  It just looks that way, when you read the Forum and I am trying to point this out.

Not everyone in the village is capable of getting out and "doing it for themselves"  THEY NEED representatives who are ready, able and capable of doing it for them.  That is all I am trying to say.  That is all I have ever been saying and I am very sorry if people don't like hearing this.








Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 10, 2013, 09:22:44 AM
yes but I think the point is, at this point, as far as I (and it seems others) see it, it's only you and BS saying there is a problem on Station road, solutions to which have been investigated,  demonstrated and seemingly exhausted so should the RA undertake time and effort on every single road that anyone mentions without anything to substantiate it, because that could take a long time?

To be honest I've brushed over some of the Station road stuff as it seems very repetitive and without solution so forgive me if I'm missing something but it seems to me that people are saying that the RA WILL investigate and bring things up at meetings if a sensible case to do so from a number of residents is brought to them, not just one or two and hence people have helpfully said to you, why not spend an hour or two canvassing your immediate neighbours to see what they thing, then you can move forward. I don't know you personally or know your circumstances, but what I do know is, I work long hours in the city as well as running two other businesses and a large family, I am out entertaining most evenings and try to fit in some sport to keep the ever impending belly that seems to be forever chasing me at bay, BUT, if I felt as strongly as you seem to about where I lived, I would find a way to find a solution, and have done in the past.

Please don't get me wrong, this isnt a personal attack MG, I genuinely hope that if there is a problem on Station road which you seem to firmly and genuinely believe there is, that you can find a solution which makes your life easier as that's all you, and we all want. It's just that sometimes, it's only us who can do it.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: mg on December 10, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Thank you Craigmax - but how would the RA represent you if you were very old, disabled or ill and could not get out of the house to DIY the situation.

I get the feeling that people don't want anyone who rocks the boat to post here.  Therefore I give up and won't post.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: craigvmax on December 10, 2013, 09:38:58 AM
I think the RA do represent the groups you have mentioned, I'm sure others can comment on this better than I.

I think you're wrong though, there is a difference between rocking the boat which is sometimes neccessary to provoke discussion and debate and something that descends into a single minded rant.

Posting or not posting is your personal choice and it's one for you to make. Personally I think it's a shame if you leave though MG.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: speerroadres on December 10, 2013, 07:52:52 PM
The fact I became involved in traffic mayhem in Watts Road the other evening was a schoolgirl error on my part.. I usually avoid all those roads at all times of the day and, if you are a local, you probably do the same.. However, I do believe that congestion in this area was doubled, if not trebled, by the decision to put humps and a no right turn at the end of Summer Road.. Taking traffic away from Summer Road was great but it was bound to have a knock on effect on the surrounding area.  The roads that get hit by this extra traffic at peak times are ill suited to this volume of cars and lorries. Some thought should have been given to this at the time of all the road calming measures and not fingers crossed, hope for the best. The Summer Road closure has just shifted the problem elsewhere and that is why I think it should be addressed in some way, by the Residents Association who instigated the calming measures in the first place.


Title: Re: One way along Watts Road
Post by: BlueSky on December 10, 2013, 10:43:43 PM
MG - I too think its a shame you are leaving, I feel you have the right intentions and making some waves, these things just take time, I'm afraid. The world needs rockers!

Spree roadies - you may be right but why enter the blame game, we just want something done, don't we?


Residents' Association Forum | Powered by SMF 1.0.7.
© 2001-2005, Lewis Media. All Rights Reserved.