Residents' Association Forum

Does anyone have a suggestion how to discourage foxes ?   

Reynard paid us a visit last night, left a few smelly offerings on our lawn, dug some small holes....

I believe the most effective way is to install high fencing all round the perimeter of the garden, but that's not really practical here, and M Reynard can of course jump...!

The place is crawling with urban foxes and they are a plague.  There's no sure-fire way to counter them.  I've tried.  They burrow under as well as jump over fences.  They ignore those electronic devices and the off-putting odours.  Get a foxhound and kennel him outside is all I can suggest.  (Our new neighbours' pair of cats have been seen putting one fox to flight...)

I wonder if there was ever a local Hunt.  Time to revive some old traditions?

Nope, that is just barbaric!

I agree something has to be done, but surely a more humane way of culling is possible in todays day and age. Not men and women on horseback, thinking that terrosing animals and then  mauling them to death, is percieved as a Sunday sport and OK!

Foxes being so over familiar and being in small towns like TD is originally down to human inrtervention and us building all over any spare piece of green land anyway so the least we owe them is abit of respect.

I fully appreciate a minority of people's issues with foxes, but lets not go back in time just yet heah!!!

Part of the problem - and if your garden was on a fox's habitual night run you would readily agree they are a real problem! - is that many misguidedly soft-hearted residents put out food for them, or they'll come and eat from food bowls put out for cats and dogs.  This gets them familiar with being close to houses and they get bolder and bolder - hence the several incidents round the country, including Long Ditton last summer, of unprovoked attacks on people as well as some pets.

I think its great we have wild animals roaming around, is it not possible to give them food at a location that is acceptable for them to be, afterall isn't that the only reason they come into gardens, they are oppurtunists and take what they can when they can, who can blame them when we push them out of every hidey hole, and the Long Ditton incident, were they not camping in their garden, where no doubt Foxes wander through regularly, with their feet sticking out the the tent door!, or have I mis-remembered that, but they are wild animals, wild animals hit the headlines in other countries but they do not immediatley spurt out the word cull!, I imagine that their are indeed some incidents that are thought to be unprovoked I think we seem to forget that it is not the animals that have caused and continue to cause the problems, it is us. 

I'm not 'against' foxes or any other form of wildife, and don't support foxhunting.  It's not a matter of principle, I would just prefer not to have:

- holes dug in the lawn, bulbs dug up

- deposits of infected excrement and malodorous urine 

- rabbits, birds and other wildlife cruelly killed  

- not being safe to sleep in a tent in the garden of a warm summer night 


So any suggestions to discourage foxes from the garden gratefully received - so far, Get Off My Garden and Scoot have been recommended - will try them out, and would be glad to receive reports on their effectiveness.

Of course we want them!, we want all wildlife, surely we cannot start striking off species because they do not suit our lifestyles, do they want us is another question. But to try and reply to your points:

- The Fox does not know the value you place on your kept lawn Emberman, he is just digging and therefore I don't think we can hold that against them, as frustrating as it may be.

- I will admit, horrible poo!, but I suppose it's from the diet that the Urban Fox is forced to eat, which through habitat destruction can be laid at our feet, they scavenge and happen upon tasty morsels full of preservatives, E Nos and who knows what else.

- Animals kill other animals, that is the way of the world, not pleasant to witness I appreciate that, but they all do it, not out of cruelty but hunger or even just curiosity, we've all seen kitty paw and claw baby birds or frogs to death.

- I do not think it has been rendered unsafe as such but you certainly should be aware of your surroundings and the creatures living within it, and if necessary take reasonable precautions.

Their has to be a way to co-exist with nature, it is their land as much as ours, some quick searching turned up products "Scoot" and "Get Off my Garden" Fox Repellents by way of false scent markings, maybe worth a look, or advice can be sought from:   http://www.foxproject.org.uk/

Foxes here are more than 'the land' can support because humans are feeding them and so they come closer to houses and that's when the problems start. TThey are a pest in these numbers and leave poo all over the place.  

In response to Walker's post and the poo issue!!
So do people's PET dogs. I regularly have to dodge dog poo along Summer Road whilst walking to work, and that is when the PET dog has a human being to pick it up after them!!!!
What does that say about the owners, who are legally obliged to pick it up??!!.....

It says a lot about the owners, and also about a council that doesn't enforce its bylaws.  Poo, litter, no cycling, camping along Albany Reach.  How about an article on that Admin?

It doesn't distract from the separate issue of foxes, though, or justify the plague.  

Not a bad idea.  I suppose the problem goes back to when these and other issues were removed from police responsibility and passed on to local authorities for enforcement?  (not sure of the details offhand).  It seems not to have been such a good idea.  By-laws that are openly flouted without being enforced breed contempt for the law as well as social irresponsibility.

At my last place, foxes used to come into the house if you left the back door open.  You'd hear a big 'crash' coming from the kitchen, and on going to see what was going on, you'd see a bushy tail dart out of the door, and a trail of eggs running into the garden.

We also used to get them coming in through the cat flap.  I had to chase one out from my spare bedroom (upstairs), at 2 in the morning once.  We soon learnt to barricade the flap at night, after they'd chewed through 4 of my wife's handbags.......

One reason why we don't have a cat flap!

We're visited by foxes every night and they make a lot of mess.  Three separate ones at twilight yesterday.   Can't let kids go on the lawn with bare feet as every night the foxes crap on it - and as it's soggy crap, it's hard to remove without both shovel and hose.  They often dig up bulbs, and killed and ate a rather valuable Koi from the pond.

On the other hand they can be fun to watch - we get two or three 'passing through' every night.  A couple of days ago, my wife was staggered to see one climb the apple tree to grab half a loaf left on a bird table.  Along the back of Church Walk yesterday afternoon I spotted a vixen with four cubs in the cemetery field, but (of course) it was one time I didn't have the camera as I was going to work out at Colets...  But those four will be less cute in a year's time, and add to the seemingly vast number of urban foxes that do so much damage around and about (not least by worrying the litter etc. in bins and spreading it around).

Re: cat flaps - I've put in one of those micro chip ones that only work for 'programmed' cats. And I can say they work very well.

I put this in not for foxes but to keep out some neighbouring toms that were coming into our house! 

This could be a solution if you want a cat flap and are worried about foxes using it?

(Note: this response is purely a cat flap solution-> I am not entering into the whole debate about foxes - there I am standing firmly on the fence !!)

I've yet to fit a cat flap to the new house - we're keeping the cat indoors until she's settled in.  

We tried the micro chip one in the previous house though, and found it to be next to useless - the neigbourhood toms soon learned that you could open the flap without a chip by pulling it towards you.  Our cat picked this up as well, and when her collar went missing, we never bothered replacing the chip - she was quite happing getting in by pulling the flap toward her.  (She's a very clever cat!)

It did however keep the foxes out!  We still had to be careful not to leave the back door open on a warm evening though.  Just hoping that the foxes aren't as bad here as they were in the previous place....

On a slightly different note.
Assume you'll  be checking out the fly past tomorrow, as it is directly outside your front door!! You lucky soul.
Mind you it is only a couple of mins down the road from us so we will show willing, especially as there is a nice beer at the end of it too! 

Which micro chip one did you try Rhodrich? Now I am worried as I don't want the toms coming in again. So far we have been lucky and the worst was some cat hair (not our cats) on the bed... !

The one we have is the Sureflap one which I isntalled using a mounting adaptor fit into the hole we had already  had made in our pvc door (we had first got a more simple flap in there as we thought our cat would hold her own).

This has created a sort of tunnel and I think the design is such that it should not be hookable and entered into as if the cat flap is pulled towards the cat then it stops any entry into the tunnel (does that make sense) - except for a very very small cat?? 

This is my hope anyways!! 

Apologies for the thread drift!

Actually, my mistake, it wasn't a microchip one, it was a Staywell  infra red one: http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=931&pf_id=54633

We'd already tried the one with the magnet, but the foxes made short work of that (I think one had got in, got trapped, and then rammed their way out).  

Not sure what to go for this time: have never had much success when there are toms and foxes about.

This is the one we bought:
http://www.sureflap.co.uk/

It has quite a small tunnelled entrance way (even smaller than some of the staywell range) - - i.e. our largish cat takes up the whole of it to get in and out... so not much space for her to manoeuvre whilst inside the gap... ! 

Its only locked one way (i.e. if a cat does get in - perhaps by staying close to my cat then at least it can get out) so theoretically it could be 'pulled' but if it was hooked then I think there would not be space to then enter? 

Since I have installed it -> no cat has come in (and I have been meaning to set up a web cam to see if they try!) and our cat is generally a lot happier. Fingers crossed this will last.

As it works off the embedded microchip - no need for any collar etc (I wouldn't give any collar a chance of lasting more than about 3 minutes before our cat manages to 'lose' it!).

As posted on another thread, I've had a lot of pronlems with foxes in the food bins, even with the handle locked down.
I've been keeping the food bin inside the recycling bin during the week, but it doesn't stop the foxes on collection night.

I sent an email to the council asking if they provided extra locks or properly fox-proof bins and received a reply that they don't do this and directing me to a website http://www.foxolutions.co.uk who may be able to help.

I have contacted that company and have ordered a spray to spray on the bin which is supposed to deter the foxes. I'll let you know how I get on with it.

However, I do think that it is rather an abdication of responsibility for the council to make mandatory the use of 'equipment' that isn't fit for purpose in the environment in which we live and to push responsibility for the problems they have created onto the householder.
We never had any problems like this before the separate food waste bins.

Am I expecting too much? (That is a serious question, not a rhetorical one!)

The problem of foxes generally, which seems to be growing fast, is one where the council will not do anything meaningful - but if you read up on foxes on the Web, you'l see that not a great deal can effectively be done.  However, there are far too many - so many local to the central areas of Thames Ditton that we now get four or five different foxes an evening coming though (and messing up) our garden, to the extent that they have worn their own path across the lawn!

I'll be interested in your experiences with the chemical.  I tried Jeyes Fluid in the past, which would deter any normal mammal, and certainly deterred me, but to no avail.  However, the foxes passing through our garden do not yet seem to have learned the trick of opening the council slop bucket, even outside on the Walk.  You must be a victim of some other wily fox(es); or, you may have a defective bucket (do your neighbours have the same problem?) in which case I'm sure the council would swap it for a new one.

Our local foxes have figured out that by by dragging the bin around the garden the locking mechanism eventually opens. 

The solution we've opted for is a large brick on top. Not ideal, but generally effective.

Well I LOVE seeing foxes in my garden in Thames Ditton.  They are shy creatures who run away when they hear us.  Our gardens don't "belong" to us really, do they?  They actually belong to nature and all that is in nature.  Just putting a fence around our garden does not mean the garden is ours and ours alone.  I think it is a very sad world if we can't co-exist with the wildlife around us!  Who do we think we are?

I didn't say I didn't want to 'co-exist' with them, though the ones in my garden aren't shy at all.

I just want to find a way to stop them from scattering food rubbish all over my garden. That's not unreasonable, is it?

Not wanting to start World War 3, but I agree wtih MG!!!!

Like I've said before, they are wild animals and only come into peoples gardens etc, because us lovely humans have built all over their land.

I personally see more mess left by ' pet ' dogs whilst walking round Thames Ditton, then mess left by foxes. Pet dogs, who's lovely opwners can't even be bothered to pick up their poo to put it bluntly. Although it is a legal requirement to do so.

Actually now I'm on my soap box, I actually see more mess on the streets of Thames Ditton left by humans who can't be bothered to take their own rubbish home.

Feeling a little vilified here!

Does nobody read the other posts properly before they jump on their high horses?

I was actually complaining about the quality of the bins supplied by the council, given that we do have a lot of foxes in the area. At no point have I said that anything should be done about the foxes themselves, just that it would be nice to be able protect our rubbish from them!

Hmmm. I'm a Nimby on this one. I'm guessing the fox lovers do not have young children that have come in from the garden covered in fox excrement with all the associated risks of toxocariasis, or crying because the foxes have chewed up their toys.

However, I do agree about the problem or dog mess on the parks and pavements, which is partially why I am so precious about my garden.

I saw Giggs Hill green was covered in litter this morning where the foxes had pulled it out the bin.  

You guess wrong on the children front, but heah. 

Whether members are on their soap boxes, high horses or feelig vilified. We are all entitled to our own opinion, hence the great debates / forums we get on the RA website!

My post was purely relating to the issue some people have with foxes, and merely putting my point of view across. It was not relating to the bin problem , which I fully appreciate some people have. 

Next post welcome!

My turn to jump in then!

Whilst its fun to have debates and arguments like this on a forum - I find they are immensely more enjoyable in a pub.

I think we'll find that we all actually agree with each other more often than not (as the spoken word is prone to less misinterpretation than the written word - especially the written word on forums / emails / etc)!

And I find that most pubs will not welcome foxes inside so we should be safe ... unless you wanted to see a fox in which case you'll be disappointed (I remember feeling this as a young boy over here on a summer holiday and my uncle took me to a pub called the fox and the hound and there was neither a fox nor a hound in said pub... ).

Time to dig out the pub crawl thread then ... 

Edit:

ps to actually contribute to this thread - I found this website:
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/faq/index.html

This seems to cover most of what has been said about foxes I think... !

The fox or foxes in central Thames Ditton that have given tdres problems with the council slop-bucket are now generalising those activities.  The plaguey scavengers got at some slopbuckets put out for the bin collectors along Church Walk this week, and have also defeated the locking mechanism on my neighbour's slopbucket and mine during the past week.

Is this going to spell the end of the food-waste regime?  I've been supporting it, but I can see that we will be putting food waste back into the 'residual waste' collection rather than having it strewn all over the garden or the Walk by these pests.

And I'm not anti-wildlife! I reach an accommodation with ants, slugs, wasps and greenfly, which does involve some unfortunate measures to restore balance; I rescue spiders (which I like and which do a lot of good) while my wife tries to destroy them.  What do you do about those?...   How about rats?  I like squirrels and love parakeets.  I'd like to 'reach an accommodation' with foxes which have multiplied to become a damaging pest and a growing nuisance.   If they were wild, mangy, feral dogs instead of cuddly Reynard of the folk tales with the anti-hunting sympathy vote, public attitudes towards them would, I think, be tougher.

.....and, while the fox population here has boomed in the past decade, hedgehogs seem to have died out.  We used to get several regular hedgehog visitors (and they made an endearingly loud noise when mating on the lawn).  But we haven't seen one in the garden since 2003.  I am inclined to wonder whether the foxes have killed them.

Actually you guessed wrong about me too.  My children have all grown up with foxes in the garden, at one of our houses the foxes lived under the shed at the bottom of a fairly small garden.  Never caused us any problems - just lots of joy.  Now, when the children come home from uni, they STILL love watching the foxes in the garden.  Even the 19 year old boy who only acknowledges our existence with a grunt always gleefully tells us when there is a fox in the garden!  I just brought them up to be careful of dog poo outside of the house and it carried over to good hygiene in the garden and countryside.  

Having a friend that works @ Tiggywinkles, & obviously knowing more about this species than the average person, there are numerous reasons why the population of hedgehogs has dwindled. 
One main reason, is more so to do with human intervention, and how we have have our gardens set up. Hedgehogs need ' easy ' access to peoples gardens to gain entry. However, where people are building more and more partitions between neighbouring houses, this is making it difficult for them to even get in. Obviously, the more houses built, means more gardens, and more segretation via barrier methods. Decking and people not having lawned areas also naturally stops the number of bugs generated, therefore declining the hedehog of a decent diet.
I appreciate that foxes may be to blame for a certain amount of deaths - although I would think that even they would not want to eat something with spines as a first choice, especially when food waste bins can apparently be very easy to open. I see more hedgehogs killed on the road by cars! Therefore not the fualt of the foxes on this front either.
Do fully appreciate some peoples views on foxes, and also agree with them ( surprisingly enough ). 
However on the other hand I am open minded enough to know, that it is too easy for people to jump on the band wagon, without proper knowledge of the topic, and therefore automatically cast blame onto them.

So far our local fox has managed to puncture two paddling pools, my son's favourite ball and scare the bejeezus out of a neighbour when it jumped over the fence when blocked off its usual path. We've also never seen the hedgehog we released from the sanctuary since the first week (but there's been a lot less slugs so I'm hoping he is still about). On the plus side, the fox's diarrhoea seems to have stopped so it is easier to clear up after it and there are less surprises lurking in the grass and the children do delight in spotting it sunbathing in the corner.

Foxes are known to eat slugs too - although as here they dine richly on food left out for them, or for cats and dogs, I doubt they opt for slugs on the menu!

On the hedgehogs - there haven't been any boundary changes or new perimeter obstacles along our bit of Church Walk, which backs on to free space - but the number of hedgehogs has declined from regular sightings up to 2003  to zero a couple of years later, and now.

How are we on wasps?  I have another roof infestation, but on the other hand they are nice and stripey and pollinate flowers and make that dreamy buzzing noise..... do you think I should kill the nest off, or let them colonise the rest of the roof?!

I would ' obviously ' go for the option of letting them colonise the rest of your roof.
As my father used to say, sarcasim is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence!.....
On a slightly different stance, I know a pest prevention man ( who doesnt specialise in the culling of foxes ), but can help re: wasp infestations!!!
Let me know if you go down the route of wanting to kill them off and I'll pass you his number!

LOL I do try to be as objective as possible!

In this case, as the pest controllers cost a packet, I am trying to kill off the wasps by stopping up the entrance hole with rags soaked in insecticide. The nest is inaccessible to me as it is in a flat roof, between the top roof layer and the ceiling plasterboard.  But if that fails I may have to resort to a pest consultant indeed.

Back to the subject of foxes and food bins, since using the 'Wash and Get Off' spray from foxolutions I've had no trouble with my bin.
That could, of course, be coincidence as it's only been a few weeks but may be worth a try for those still having problems.
We keep the food bin inside another bin during the week, then spray the bin and surrounding area when we put it out for collection.

We have been wedging our slop bucket between two of our three wheeliebins and that seems to have frustrated Reynard for the nonce.

I also painted some Jeyes Fluid on paving slabs round where I planted bulbs last week, and - touch wood - that seems to have prevented the foxes from going there to dig them up.  However, I tried Jeyes Fluid in the past as a perimeter guard, and it didn't keep them out.  Also, it makes a right old pong (I like things like Wright's Coal Tar soap, though I had to stop using it as a young man when I was looking for women.  Phenols are not everyone's taste.).

"Fox attacks MoD" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15120821)

No, wait - that's the wrong thread. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17259087  - A fox believed to be the biggest killed in Britain was shot after attacking lambs

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58879000/jpg/_58879793_alan_hepworth_fox.jpg)

My God!  One of those could overturn a whole wheeliebin on its own.  No wonder the council are scared to confront them, and stick to moles and squirrels........

Love the combat trousers farmers in Aberdeen have to wear tho'

This is what the foxes get up to when they think nobody is looking! ()

LOL - cute.

Damn, that's going to attract the sympathy vote again...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4179342/15st-man-mugged-by-a-fox-Beasts-alley-attack-for-food.html

15-stone civil servant was cornered after going to Tesco. "Terrified Seb, 29, tried to fight off the beast by swinging his shopping bag."

What did I tell you?!

You believe what they write in the Sun?

...."substantiated" by the Telegraph  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9130473/15st-man-mugged-by-fox.html

Although all I could find on the BBC was: Fox donor Jon Moulton felt 'mugged' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15532131)  ;)

You believe what they write in the Tory-graph!!

;)

Are they not the same newspaper group?

No, that's The Times and The Sun (News International / Murdoch)

The Telegraph is owned by the Barclay brothers (Telegraph Group Media Ltd)

But they all poach each others news.

And the mugger-fox story is totally plausible!

My lady wife got mugged by a squirrel once on Richmond Hill btw.  Thumb bitten in rage for absence of peanut.  I had to beat it off. So we have direct personal experience of assaults by furry animals.

Sorry I had to laugh when I read the article. I realise its poor form to laugh at someone elses misfortune but so be it.

My favourite was this piece of advice:
“The best thing to use is a water pistol.”

Yes that works well (it would work on on our cat too) but how often do you find yourself carrying a water pistol in a park?


I have no sympathy at all - even without a 'weapon' - a person should be able to chase off a fox.

But should they have to??? Foxes are getting bigger and bolder and more aggressive and it is only a matter of time before human remains are found in their lairs and our days will be numbered!

So, hose restrictions come in tomorrow, but I see that for health and safety reasons I shall be allowed to wash my patio if there is fox crap on it.  It is rare that fox crap and health'n'safety considerations work in one's favour....

im pretty sure there is one stuck on the island at the moment

It must know the code and the secret hand shake to get through the gate!!

You might be stuck with it for a while:
Foxes can swim but I dont think they are that keen on it.

Also reckon the river is probably a little too cold!

Islanders are probably feeding it (or leaving out cat or dogfood...) 

Don't think anyone would feed it but Its been through a few bins, they do come on from time to time and seem to leave as mysteriously as they arrive, I think they must swim or sneak through the gate behind people, odd one

Aha!  Channel 4 documentary urban foxcam starts tomorrow, Monday 30 April! ....40,000 urban foxes..... "one in four respondents have been disturbed by fox noise in the past year, while 13 per cent say their bins have been raided, and seven per cent say a fox killed their chickens, rabbits or guinea pigs"

Two more runny fox turds on my grass this morning...... if only Reynard wasn't so cute....

Can only say again - I love the foxes.  The latest RHS magazine has a very interesting article about how our gardens are "wildlife motorways" so to speak, allowing wildlife to travel from one area to another, maintaing  the food chain etc.  All wildlife is welcome in my garden.

I quite like them really but the "wildlife motorway" for them runs through my back yard!  I think the series on foxcam could be very interesting and instructive: as the blurb points out, the media have spent more time on lions in the Serengeti than they have putting cams to study foxes in Ealing.

I also look forward to a lively and amusing debate in here!

Also, I think they ate all the hedgehogs.

...but I was disappointed in the first episode: low rate of information transmission, and rather hug-a-fox

Reynard, emboldened perhaps by residents feeding him, at it again:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/09/fox-bites-baby-finger

A fox left a one-month-old baby boy with a serious hand injury after creeping into his bedroom and dragging him from his cot.  Police said they were investigating the incident in Bromley, south east London, in which the animal tore the infant's finger off.  The child's screams alerted his mother, who rushed to his room to see his hand lodged "halfway down the animal's throat", according to the Mail on Sunday. She is said to have kicked the fox until it let go.

Here's one next door 26 January - bold as brass,  broad daylight, we got to within eight feet of him before he sauntered off....

(http://residents-association.com/images/reynard_bold.jpg)

PS: more on the fox-bites-baby story, with quote from Boris even, here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fox-attacked-baby-boy-in-cot-say-police-8488586.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9860266/Sleeping-baby-attacked-by-fox.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9860356/Previous-fox-attacks-on-children.html

To lessen the risk of injury - adults and children have both been attacked while asleep - (as advised by Chris Packham): don't feed foxes, or leave any food on the ground or in bins they can access, and which would attract them.

Also, take care not to leave external doors, including patio doors, open and unattended.

Foxes - like all wild animals have to be treated with respect and not as pets.  Watch them, enjoy them but  leave them be, and remember that animals as well as people can get into open doors and windows.  If you have children in the house don't leave your doors open unless you are around - that is just common sense isn't it.

Actually
Foxes to not eat hedgehogs. Badgers on the other hand sometimes do eat hedgehogs.

If stray dogs were running around the borough, the Council would do something about it - they would be obliged to. But they ignore foxes despite the many dangers they pose. Foxes in this area are so bold and so hungry that are now predators. Twice within the past seven days I have had to grab my small dog in a residential road to protect him from an aggressive fox. Elmbridge BC is responsible for pest control. When will they act?

http://www.hedgehoghelp.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=ecb0d3bb4f48fbf90526d9e1c8bb3b98&topic=1880.msg17740#msg17740
"Urban Foxes have become a major danger to hedgehogs"

Interesting post by the Admin of thehedgehog.co.uk...

Keith you can't be serious? Citing that link as proof of foxes killing headgehogs! Sorry but that is not evidential research. I can see his blog is popular though. Derek as the administrator has posted 4757 posts unfortunately he only has 2 members. 
As I said there is no evidence or research that exsists citing foxes as a major decline to headgehogs declining in urban environments. I fear that there demise may be down to the sterile garden environments suburban gardens are laid out these days. Not to mention the 4 x4 generation.
Good on you for your googling skills though. 10 out 10 for trying. But leave research to the researchers that's what we get paid for!

Dilys earlier... ;)

(http://www.shredder.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Someone_Is_Wrong_On_The_Internet.gif)

If you read what I wrote, Dilys, I did not claim it as "proof" but drew attention to it as an interesting post; I might add one based on de visu observation by the poster rather than polemical hearsay evidence, and not to be discounted in any facile manner.

And here in our back garden I have noted that our last sighting of a hedgehog was in 2003, while it was very rare to see a fox before that time; however last year on a summer evening we would get several foxes passing through each evening.  Please note that I am not claiming causality but possible correlation  (Noting your dismissive comment 'leave research to the researchers that's what we get paid for': I  have a science degree btw, and five published papers including one in Nature in a previous incarnation).  The possibility bears examination.

Another explanation sometimes advanced for the decline in hedgehogs is slug pellets: but use of metaldehyde has declined greatly over the past decade and a hedgehog would have to eat an enormous number of contaminated slugs to reach the LD50 dose.  Risk to slug-eating mammals of metaldehyde is assessed as low (Conclusion on the peer review of the pesticide risk assessment of the active substance metaldehyde; European Food Safety Authority Journal  2010;8(10):1856)

[[ craigvmax - LOL.  I love xkcd ]]

University of Hull (http://www2.hull.ac.uk/old_news_pages/news_archive/2009_news_archive/november/hedgehogs_in_danger_of_extinct.aspx) cites: "The other problem with hedgehogs moving to residential areas is that they face attacks from the increased number of foxes. Foxes used to scavenge from plastic bags containing rubbish, but since the introduction of wheelie bins, foxes have found it more difficult to find food and are now killing more hedgehogs, in addition to engaging in random attacks that leave hedgehogs with broken or missing legs." - Dr Toni Bunnell,  expert in mammal conservation, University’s Department of Biological Sciences

Preferable to the Daily Mail as a source, methinks.

Dilys and Keith - my impression is that this (rather interesting) debate will not reach a conclusion on this forum ... 

So how about you both sign up for the pub crawl in March and this can be continued there! Actually I beleive Keith is already signed up so just over to you Dilys! Be great to have you both!

My very limited (googling!) research skills revealed to me that the Albany was once the 'Fox on the River' -> so maybe thats the perfect place to conclude this erm ... debate?

:D LOL 

Love the a-sexual illustration Craig  ;)
Yes may be up for the pub crawl depends when in march as I am working in Brazil  Turkey and S Africa for most of that month. Sorry Keith I did not mean to suggest you we're not an intelligent researcher. I was suggesting that "Derek's lack of followers on his site were minute. 

Sounds like an interesting job that takes you to such places ... ! 
Hopefully you can make the March date to tell us how nice the weather is in those places!

I'll get back on topic on my next thread !

What are peoples views on the responsibilities of people due to foxes making a mess? 

Lets say a fox makes a mess of your food bin that you left out.

I've noticed that if a bin has been tipped over and created a mess the council leaves it alone. When it happened to our bin (we had an extra bag that did not fit in the main bin and the foxes made a mess of it) - I cleared up the mess but I have noticed on our street the fox has dragged some stuff all across the road... this has been there for a week now...

I don't want to get into the debate about how much of a pest the foxes are or whether people should make more of an effort to keep their bins fox proof if possible (as I believe both opinions have valid arguments) but given a mess is it not the person whose bin it is to clean up?

Or is that too simplistic ? As sometimes the bin can be dragged quite a long way away.

If a fox has made a mess emptying a bin - if its my stuff I get a pair of gloves on and clean it up, if it someone else's, but its near my house and I have time, I would don the gloves and clean it.  If its not near my house I leave it - I think I'd be out all day clearing up rubbish if I didn't limit the cleaning to stuff near my house!!!

Neighbour across the way reports that one evening last week his son, and later he himself, were molested by a fox on Ashley Road when leaving their cars.  One incident around 9, one around 11pm.  The fox actually tried to nip my neighbour's trouser-leg and had to be kicked away.  In another recent incident on Ashley Rd a fox circled a parked car and pushchair with toddler in it while the mother transferred the child.

Another resident nearby is known to put food out for foxes at night.

The fox in the photo a few posts ago seems to be very bold (but hasn't attacked us or the cat).  This morning it was sunning himself on the front doormat of #8 CW but left by the time we returned from the shops so I didn't get a photo of that.  However, here it is in our garden shortly afterwards:
[img width=500 height=380]http://residents-association.com/images/frankie_fox.jpg[/img]

I've sat on the fence on a lot of the arguments on here regarding foxes (though enjoyed reading them!). 

But on this point I have to say I think this is a no no -> whichever way I look at it.

A very sensible response and attitude - I just wish some of the people on my street would follow it! 

Whilst I appreciate its not someones fault that a fox messes up the bin but if it happens to your bin onto the street then why not clean it up?

I would feel no different if for example adverse weather blew my bin over and made a mess.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2130741_large_size_family_of_foxes_to_be_culled
"A GROUP of foxes said to no longer fear being around people are to be killed after complaints that they could attack someone.

Elmbridge Borough Council has been looking into ways of culling the animals in the area around Stompond Lane in Walton "before anything more serious happens". 

Meanwhile the bold fox around Church Walk / Ashley Road chased the young daughter of a neighbour down the road last week, I am told....