Residents' Association Forum

Right.  Now we've won the battle to get reasonable rates restored to Ashley Road car park, which came into force this week (with an immediately noticeable increase in cars parked there, no surprise), we want people especially longer-stay parkers to USE the car park.  The aim is to reduce some congestion in the High Street but above all to allow passing shoppers to find a spot for ten minutes while they pop into our hard-pressed shops.

The rates are:
Monday to Friday, 10-6pm

Up to 30 minutes 10p
Up to 1 hour 20p
Up to 2 hours 40p
Up to 3 hours 70pv Up to 4 hours £1
Over 4 hours and all day £2
No charge Saturday and Sunday, Public or Bank Holidays

SEASON TICKET BARGAIN!
Consider purchasing an annual season ticket, NOW £202 – DOWN from £405.
Quarterly season tickets NOW £60 – DOWN from £112. 

Many of us lament that since 2005 the car park is no longer free.  There's no realistic hope of returning to that state in these troubled times, but the new rates are, I think you will agree, very reasonable.  So, if you want the High Street shops to survive, which keep the heart of Thames Ditton beating, if you want to avoid pay and display, and if you want to be sure that an empty car park won't eventually be sold off, please use it.

Is there anyway to push for better signage for the car park? Perhaps by the fountain roundabout? 

I don't think many visitors to the village know it is there i.e. people coming to the Swan and (soon) the Crown, weddings at St Nick's etc.

We have pushed, and the signage is coming (Say Surrey and Elmbridge - both councils have to be involved, the first to approve the signage and the latter to erect the signs <sigh>

"Right," said Fred, "Both of us together 
One each end and steady as we go.";)

the swan has a chalkboard showing directions to it but yes I agree, people dont seem to know it's there.

PS I should have added the information that an annual residents' permit to park in Ashley Road car park costs just £101.  Interestingly, nobody currently has a residents' permit.....

Nobody!!!!!!!???????  bonkers.

If my car was ever here in the day I'd get one, thats nuts isnt it.

Thats a very reasonable charge! To put it into context many councils in London charge similar if not more just for standard residents permits (to cover the 'admin') with no guarantee of spaces !

The problem (as we know), is for only a little further away residents have access to free parking on the street...

I am a little surprised  some islanders have not taken advantage - as its pretty handy I think?  But I am assuming most have 'solved' their parking issues either by parking in the small area they have, or on summer road or rent spaces somewhere. I believe Taggs also rents out spaces for example?

Still 100 per annum is very good... 

Personally I feel a little guilty that our household has two cars between us. As the OH uses her car almost daily it makes sense that hers lives on our street but I rent a garage in Surbiton for mine (and I use the fact our street has enough cars as one of the reasons to justify the cost!!).

Speaking for myself, in spite of this being a very reasonable charge - as there is an element of inconvinience of not having my car on my own street I would therefore prefer to have it garaged rather than a dedicated parking space (garaging has other pro's, such as additional storage as well as better protection for the car and often reduced insurance costs).

Its going to be tough to 'lure' residents away from the free parking...

Offering dedicated car 'ports', i.e. sheltered bays might tempt people? But the cost of errecting and maintaining them would offset any additional revenue the council could charge.

many of the islanders seem to have their own garages or specific places to park but yes, this isnt a million miles away.

Its not really secure enough for me unfortunately.

Well, unpopular as it may be to state it clearly, the bottom line is this:

1.  We've got the charges in the car park down to very reasonable levels, and we've staved off pay and display in the High Street.

2.  We wanted eight spaces on the honour system for passing shoppers during the working week - like the ones at Winter's Bridge.  The Surrey leadership won't allow us to have those without charging by pay and display to offset the cost of enforcement.

3.  Therefore villagers and business workers are on their honour to use the car park when they reasonably can.  That includes shop owners and businesses who leave their cars parked outside their premises all day rather than putting them in the car park when there's no loading/unloading and leaving a space for shoppers.  It includes islanders particularly those with multiple vehicles, and it includes high street residents and  daytime guests if that means long stay parking is clogging up the High Street.  If they vacate a space but some other person nabs it for all-day parking, that's very bad.

4.  If people don't respond, then the shops will continue to be hampered by lack of very easy shopper parking and:
   a.  The case for bays will probably become irresistable - which would mean pay and display with all the longer-term horrors, displacement and spread of on-street charging which that would entail; or, 
   b.  We'll risk  losing the remaining shops
   c.  The future of the poorly-used car park will be called into question.
   d. The High Street will remain clogged to the point it is now, where many avoid it and the car park altogether and go elsewhere.

....and there will be no justifiable cause for whingeing if any of  those things happen.

The future is in all our hands.

On security: there may be exceptions for exceptionally attractive or vulnerable cars but the car park has had a very good record of security since a few years ago.  There is no CCTV because there has been no statistical case of theft or criminal damage to justify it.  There have, on the other hand, been episodes of theft and criminal damage of cars parked on the street, including on the High Street.

all valid points and I'll echo them to any islanders I know.

In our case I just wouldnt take the risk with my car and my wife leaves for work at 6 o clock am so it just wouldnt be practical.

I can see if people are leaving their cars for days on end on the high street that this would be a much better solution though. Hopefully it will now help alleviate high street congestion.

More info in reply to a supplementary question I put to the council parking team:
Season tickets are not registration dependent and therefore can be transferred between vehicles.  However a 'Resident Car Park Season Ticket is specific to the resident's vehicle and so cannot be used in any other vehicle.

The Party caucus that rules Elmbridge started out in 2006 with the Thatcher-like policy that car parking fees should be raised to commercial levels, when those carparks which were viable would be hived off to firms in the private sector and those which were not commercially viable (i.e. under-used) would be sold off for development.

Since the caucus changed its leader two years ago an apparently more flexible approach has been adopted and, for example, after we had pressed for two years they acknowledged that doubling the fees for all day and half day parking in Ashley Road car park had actually reduced income for the council.  Fees were therefore halved to restore them almost to the previous level.

However, not enough all-day and half-day parkers are using the car park so it is still making a loss.  Elsewhere in the vicinity, it seems that South Bank car park, which had been threatened with disposal in a consultants' report commissioned by the ruling caucus, has now filled up.  Difficulties persist in the village car parks at East Molesey and Hersham.

At the Elmbridge open Council Tax meeting in the Civic Hall last Monday, the council as usual took the opportunity to get those attending to fill out a written survey listing things to which we wanted the council to give high priority and those we thought should have lesser priority.  I was interested to see that for the first time in these events, which have been going for three years now, one of the questions was what priority the council should give to 'providing car parking.'  (I ticked 'high priority').

But the fact that the question was there reminded me of the vulnerability of Ashley Road car park to eventual 'disposal' by the market ideologues who run the council, and made me think that perhaps they haven't abandoned that policy after all.

Use it or lose it?

What an awful thought.  How upset everyone would get if they sold it and more flats were built with more cars, more parking problems in the village and no place to go.  There would be more no-parking and loads more grumbling but if people will not use the car park now it will probably happen.  Everyone thinks that everyone else but them should use the car park!

Wouldn't a one hour parking limit in the High Street (with residents' permits) encourage others to use the free car park, thus leaving the High Street free for shoppers?   

Parking wardens wouldn't be needed - just occasional spot checks to police parking.

Why can't the car park continue to be a resource, not a potential development site?  Does Elmbridge Borough Council really need the money from selling it off, when they have substantial reserves in their funds ?  (Or would a sell-off be a way of keeping council tax down in election years?)

The problem is that (quite apart from any misgivings that most people have about introducing any form of residents parking) as Keith noted on another thread, Islanders are not considered to be 'residents' for the purposes of any residents permits.  Therefore any such plan would be unacceptable.

The only way the Ashley Road car park would work again is if the fees were abolished completely.  Why would anyone want to pay for parking in a car park, when they can park for free on the roads around it?  However small the charge for the car park, it is still more than 'free'

I wonder how much the car park is considered to be worth?  Could we as a village not raise the funds to purchase it from Elmbridge Council, and return it to free operation?  Or else we could make a request to lease it from them at a peppercorn rent?  That to me would solve the village parking problem once and for all.

I like this idea!

At the moment it is 'loss making' so a peppercorn rent shared by say villages / businesses is an excellent idea. 

Might be hard to convince people to even contribute to that but we can but try?

We would probably lose the public toilet (as I am guessing its probably the biggest 'expense' of the car park) but perhaps we can inclue that in the negotiation?

In another thread I pointed out that this would require money and volunteers to run it, and invited offers of either or both.  There were no replies!  If you wish to make such an offer, and prefer to remain anonymous, pm me in the first instance.

Cost would include maintenance, lighting, insurance, etc. apart from any supervision/enforcement required on what would be private property if purchased.

Alas there is, realistically,  no chance that Elmbridge Borough Council, the public owners of the site, will remove parking fees and make it free for all again.  Particularly under present party leadership with their absolute majority in the Council.  

Indeed, this sort of subject raises the whole principle of what taxpayers want their taxes used for.  If taxpayers throughout Elmbridge want to pay taxes to provide free parking for some residents, workers and shoppers in the Borough's village car parks, they should make that clear to the local rulers.  And their local rulers should consult them.  Which is exactly what the Council was doing in that questionnaire last week to those attending the CT Open Meeting at the Civic Centre....

I guess that's a symptom of the times we live in.  All it would take would be for a group of travelers to move in and setup home, or for someone to slip on ice and break their leg and the whole thing could potentially turn into a complete disaster.  

That said, there are plenty of unmaintained car parks around with no lighting and gravel surfaces that seem to manage perfectly well.  As long as there are plenty of notices up stating that people use the car park at their own risk, I can't see that insurance should necessarily be a problem.  There must be a way around the costs involved.  I would happily sit on a 'carparks committee', and volunteer my time towards maintenance, if it means that the spread of further parking controls in the village could be avoided, and that's despite me never having parked in the high street area.

We wouldn't be the first group of people to do this - see here:
http://www.rugby.gov.uk/site/scripts/news_article.php?newsID=793

And indeed, behind the scenes others are thinking the same way.  They will have noted your kind offer, Rhodrich.

Parking levy. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9101441/More-motorists-face-workplace-parking-charges.html)  Workers to be charged a £ a day for the free parking they enjoy at the office.  Council to use the money to improve bus transport.  Makes sense to me.  craigvmax won't like it though!

We could pilot a scheme in Elmbridge, starting with the luxury of free parking for councillors in overcrowded central Esher.

Buses, just wrong ;)

Happy Friday all

We could convince one of the lovely residents on Station Road to grant a right of access from the car park to Station Road and then sell spaces to commuters and then put  lovely big double yellows outside my house)  :) 

Nooooooo!  You may recall the shenanigans a few years back when there was a plan for a large development of flats and houses in the back gardens behind Station Road, a key part of which was demolishing #30 (I think it was; and maybe the one next door too) to provide access to that development.  The proposal  to destroy that large green area for greed was roundly beaten off.

It is five minutes walk from the car park to the station along Church Walk.

As at 12:15 today there was 36 cars in the Ashley Road carpark. The most I have seen for some time. There was also a few spare spaces on the High Street. A year ago the norm was about 6-10 cars. 
Bravo

The Elmbridge Cabinet (100% Conservative party) wants to raise car parking charges in each of the coming three years.  You will recall that they doubled most of them three years ago, with disastrous consequences for our village car park and its longer-stay and all-day users.  We got the charges halved after a two-year battle and use of the car park has revived somewhat (though it is still under-used).  Now, rather than hike the charges again all in one go, the Elmbridge leadership presumably feel that phased increases over three years are more presentable.  Our retailers disagree. 

Text of a letter sent from Tricia Bland in her capacity as Chair of the Retailers' Association to Rob Moran, Chief Executive of Elmbridge Borough Council, dated 4 December:

"Re Increased Car Parking Charges

On behalf of all the shops and businesses in Thames Ditton High Street, we strongly object to the proposed increase in charges in the Ashley Road Car Park. Parking on the High Street is extremely limited and visitors to the shops rely on this facility, due to its convenience and proximity. However, cost is a major factor. We can accurately measure this, as following the increase in parking charges in January, 2009, there was a sharp drop in vehicles using the car park which resulted in a noticeable and corresponding loss of trade to the shops. Following a local campaign against these increases, in June 2011, charges were reduced with the result that shoppers have been returning to the Car Park. This has been helped by the retailers working with their Elmbridge and Surrey County Councillors to promote the Car Park which is essential to the viability of the High Street.

As you can appreciate, trading conditions at this time are extremely difficult and many of our members are already struggling to survive. In the past six months we’ve lost two businesses and in January, a further two shops will be closing. Therefore, any measure to discourage visitors to Thames Ditton High Street must be resisted which is why the retailers in particular are extremely dismayed  to hear of these proposals to increase car parking charges, especially as there has been no consultation with Elmbridge Council.

In conclusion, we object strongly to these proposals to increase the charges in the Ashley Road Car Park and also to the proposal to increase the time when charging takes place on weekdays and to extend the charging period to Saturdays from 9-6pm. We urge you to reconsider these proposals and ask for a proper consultation before any action is taken."

I might add that Elmbridge is flush with cash and reserves - it's one of those council that has been hoarding, although Eric Pickles does not mention that when he criticises other councils for hoarding vast reserves (of our money).

The timing of the proposed car park hikes, and using their absolute majority to steamroller them through council seems likely, reflects the fact that there are no borough elections next year and the presentational calculation that the decision will no longer be uppermost in May 2014 although the hikes will still be coming through.  

That's a shame. Do you know which ones?

I'm not sure which ones and I won't hazard a guess which may be wrong.  Perhaps Tricia will post to let us know?

Any news on the path to the car park. At the weekend it will be greatly used as its free.

I gather that Elmbridge officers are being sticky on technical details about opening a gate through to the car park (which is owned by the Council - you'd think that would mean "the public" but...).  However, the great weight of village opinion (and the Association) in favour of the pathway will, I hope and believe, move them.

Meanwhile you will have seen that the EBC cabinet (totally backwoods Tory) wants to introduce charging for the car park on Saturdays.

I used Ashley Road car park for the first time ever today. 10 pence for half an hour - brilliant!! 

It would be good if the High Street retailers could put up little signs making their cliental aware of this.

Unfortunately half an hour was exactly the time it took to buy some stamps from the post office (but that's another issue).

hahaha, laughed at last line.

Ratty - agree with the signage. Perhaps some of the restaurants and coffee shops should provide a little incentive like free coffee!  in exchange for old tickets or reverse side of ticket (can't remember if they are stick on or not)

A nice wooden sign on the maple tree (roundabout) will also help.

yeah that would work, free coffee in return for 10pence parking tickets, genius.

BlueSky now has had an inspiration!
Free coffee his clever suggestion!
But a ticket costs 10 pee,
Thats a very cheap coffee,
Next time perhaps some more deliberation!

Ah ! You beat me to it as I was busy composing another rubbish limerick!!!

Darn !

;)

hahaha, yours was better though :D

Craig - no wonder people were re rude to you on the pub crawl with your remarks!  Does the word blackballed sound seem familiar!

I did forget to say, you have to spend at least a fiver in the establishments to get the free coffee! 

Yeah Craig, honestly.

Don't think anyone was rude to me on the pub crawl, if you mean rude about me then they should say it to my face but c'est la vie. 

What pub crawl?

No one has ever been rude to anyone as far as I recall on any of the pub crawls I have arranged. BlueSky you have not been to any of those.

I believe BlueSky is a troll - I have said it before and will say so again. Thus his/her postings should be taken either with a pinch of salt or ignored.

BlueSky - again apologies (sincere ones) if you are not a troll. 

Sadly nothing you post on this forum will convince me otherwise... this based on your previous posts.

You will have to make an appearence in person to convince me otherwise. 

How about the xmas carol pub crawl ? Or are you on holiday then as well?

As you thinking more 2 for 1 on the coffees? :D

Just re read this as was in the car earlier..

1. 'Blackballed sound' is 2 words and doesn't make sense anyway 

2. A coffee is about £2.50, so your spend £5 get a free coffee plan in flawed from the outset.

3. My remarks are generally measured but you have consistently proved that it's likely you are a troll as Juninho has said, you generally don't respond or are rude when people reply to you and have conveniently forgotten about your £1000 donation so please, less of the indignance xx

Please reply 155 Thames Ditton pub crawl! Re rudeness.

Craig - here's the definition from Wikipedia,

Blackballing, ostracizing someone socially, e.g. prevention of finding local or field-specific employment, blacklisting from a club or other organization, etc.

I can confirm, I'm certainly not a troll and although some of my ideas are left field but at least they are community spirited for the betterment of the village.

Again not much sense made but maybe you have the right sentiment with your last sentence.

BlueSky - TD's equivalent of The Stig.

:D

Now, now.  Go to your rooms and tomorrow, play nicely.  Let us remain civilized above all things.  

I think that one way or another, bluesky's posts have at least been stimulating (novel thinking as the alias suggests, or gingering up the forum).

sorry dad

'S okay, son - I'm proud of you all

For years I have told people that Ashley Road Car Park is free in the weekends... and thats the best place to park when going to the Red Lion/ George/ Swan... (or the Rose and the new Italian of course).

In fact when we first came to the village to see some houses to move here (our first visit to TD and we were hooked) we parked in Ashley Road car park.

But I read somewhere recently that they are introducing charges on Saturday from the 1st of October... what a rubbish idea.

Who makes these Decisions!  And what is the sense of it, apart from detracting shoppers or making people park on station road or other.

They need to do things joined up, introduce more yellow lines if they wish to raise revenues along with a few parking fines etc.

Its now government policy to stop littering our roads with yellow lines. See https://www.gov.uk/government/news/councils-urged-to-use-parking-zones-to-cut-yellow-lines

Restricted Parking Zones really do seem like the way forward - that's great

The Elmbridge Borough Council Cabinet - 100% Conservative Party, whose party holds an absolute majority on the council so that they can railroad these things through.  The ideology is that car parks must pay their way or else they are not worth it.

These are the same people who halved the number of dog poop bins in Elmbridge, and whose colleagues run Surrey County Council too - where the ruling Cabinet is again 100% Conservative party, who wanted to install paid parking meters in High Streets here and throughout Surrey.... and a host of other things that had nothing to do with consulting residents and businesses then taking practical decisions based on common sense rather than some economic ideology.

If you don't like party ideologies including the narrow-minded, Tea-Party-like 'small government, let the private sector run profitable things and bin the rest' then you know what to do!  Me, I don't like any of the national parties, still less decisions based on ideology without sensible consultation and trial, and think that party politics should have no place in local government.

I don't support any major political party either - but that does not mean that I disagree with everything that the political parties suggest.  I certainly would not dismiss idea out of hand, just because a main stream political party suggested it.  In the same way I don't automatically always agree with all the RAs do.  

I thought the small car park charges Mon-Friday, starting at 10 am , were OK - at least it stopped all day commuter parking and left room for shoppers to park.  I don't think the charges should have been extended to the weekend.

I do like the idea of High Street parking meters.  They provide very short term parking, which encourages a good turn around of people visiting the High Street and thus increases potential shopping customers.  20p for 15 mins seems fair to me, 50p for 30 mins, £1 for an hour all OK.  This stops commuter parking and boosts sales on the High Street.

Parking meters will be okay along with high street residents.

I still think Ashley Road is underused 

As per the news item on the front page of this website and also on the thames ditton high st website the path is open now! I missed this as the item has been there since the 5th of Jan!

http://thamesdittonhighstreet.com/9-news-items/261-pipspath

Makes it even more of a shame in my view that the car park now charges on Saturdays but it looks like its a standardisation for elmbridge - we fall under 'villages':
http://www.elmbridge.gov.uk/environment/parking/table.htm

Car park still underused - more yellow lines please to ensure facility is used.

Use it or loose it!