Residents' Association Forum

Please see this update (http://residents-association.com/news/parking.php) and post your considered views in this new thread.

Parking in the village certainly seems to be getting worse and there are more and more commuter parkers.  We live at the station end of Station Road and it is always really tricky to reverse out of the drive as visibility is so restricted by all the parked cars, some of which don't seem to move for days on end.
The parkling on the bend at the village end of Station Road just has to be stopped.

That's one of the places where double yellow lines have been agreed (of 'conservation quality' i.e. thin ones, like the ones in front of Hampton Court Palace) - but Surrey & contractors have been dilatory about getting them painted.  They told Peter they would be done in September.... (2011)

I too live in Station Road and it is becoming impossible to get in and out of my drive safely.  There are now cars parked along Station Road for the whole day, blocking one side of the road and drivers who have been impeded by these cars are becoming aggressive and impatient. 

If yellow lines are going to be put on ONE PART of Station Road then they need to be put along the WHOLE ROAD.  Just stopping people parking on one bit of the road will  push the cars to the unmarked part of the road and will not make it any safer for we, the residents.  The situation needs a total solution not just a part solution.

This is the inevitable effect of trying to control parking.  The "total solution" will turn out to be totally horrid with lines and meters everywhere and less parking space overall - is that what people want?  The alternative is not doing anything, which is probably better.

I saw they had cones up and painted double yellows on the corners of Summer Road to Queens Road.

Sorry, I didn't look at this forum thread.

I don't really think that yellow lines  and parking meters look too bad - I would put up with these to enable me to get in and out of my drive safely.  Instead of loads of meters, we could just have restricted parking times, like they do near to other railway stations.  People have started to leave their cars parked down Station Road for weeks at a time, probably using the road as a public car park while they get the train to Heathrow or go on holiday.  Yet, when I drive into Kingston, or anywhere else for that matter, I have to pay to park my car.  It seems to me that it is a lose lose situation as far as Thames Ditton residents are concerned!

I think it boils down to using common sense and not acting selfishly.

Common sense would dictate:

1. In spite of the lack of yellow lines - don't park blocking the corners (everyone must know buses have to travel some of those roads)
2. If you are going away and need the station then try to park further away (possibly dropping off stuff first) 
3. Try not to drive to the station unless you have to (i.e. if you're capabale of walking and its 15 min or less walk do you really need to drive... !)
4. Don't park next to the school if you're using the station ...
etc

BUT unfortunately in this increasing selfish/thoughtless world people ignore common sense and/or act selfishly -> and we inevitably end up with regulation/restrictions that both costs us money and that we would rather not have... 

That all said - I genuinly think (with some exceptions) that generally people in our village do follow common sense and the situation around the station is ok.

Hi
I think I have a more unforgiving view of the human race than you do.  Without rules and threats, people would just do what they want!!!!!  I live near to the station and for some reason, people have started parking all down the road, for the whole day, when previously they didn't!  So the situation has changed, and very suddenly at that.  Unless you live at that end of Station Road, you probably only get a snapshot of what it is like when you drive down the road.  I suppose it just seems a bit "unfair" that people can park all day for free, making it unpleasant to drive around my home, when, wherever I go in my car, I have to pay to park for even 10 mins of parking.  I also am forbidden to park in so many places in Kingston, Surbiton etc because they have residents parking.  This stops me from parking in virtually empty streets, with hardly any cars parked there,  (the residents have probably gone into London for the day, parking in front of my drive!)    The residents of  Thames Ditton must seem a bit stupid, a bit of a push-over, allowing all day, free parking.  It all seems a bit unfair - but as I say to my children - life is unfair!!!!!

Did the increased parking along Station road coincide with Colets taking measures to stop non-members using their car park?

Hi
I didn't know that Collets had done that.  Maybe it did co-incide with it!!!!!  It was so sudden.  One week nobody parked on Station Road - then the next it was totally full.  Very strange and very annoying!  By the time people have fought their way either through Watts Road or through the village, they have such short tempers and get really impatient when they get held up YET AGAIN on Station Road.  Thanks for that info Ratty.  I hope other people can help and maybe confirm that!

I think that they are quite justified in doing so. They have to have someone there every single day to avoid people taking advantage, though I think they may slacken off a bit during school holidays, which may explain the suddenness, that and Esher college students perhaps? Of course, it may be something completely unrelated such as new parking restrictions around Hampton Court that make it more attractive for people to drive to Thames Ditton to catch the train instead.

I do feel commuters and office workers get more blame than they deserve for taking up spaces for long periods on the High Street as it always seems just as crowded with the same cars on Sunday nights as it does during office hours. 

Yes, Colets have had increasing problems with rail commuters (and school parents) abusing the club's parking provision.  Colets, particularly after their expansion of the creche, have staff and member parking problems of their own and this summer wanted to tarmac over the strip alongside the infants school to provide extra parking, but were persuaded not to damage that green space.  They'd be prepared to use the square of ground on Speer Road for overspill club parking, using grass and mesh to retain a natural look when not parked up, but some residents oppose that.  Colets also wanted to get some of their staff's cars off our streets by taking a modest block booking of annual season tickets in the seriously-underused Ashley Road car park, but other residents oppose that.  Colets have taken a creditably constructive view of relations with the community, tactfully deciding to do none of the above, and one sympathises with their measures to prevent parkers who have no relation with the club from abusing their facilities.

If there's been a recent surge in all-day parking along Station Road it may be related to a number of small things accumulating - an illustration perhaps of how tinkering with the ecology of parking has unwanted side-effects.  The yellow lines opposite Linden Close along Watts Road are now there.  The first post for curfew parking along one side of Basingfield Road has gone up, I'm told by a resident of that road.  There have been some road works in Embercourt Road and in the High Street.  

When the remaining yellow lines are implemented in the High Street, 
- by the fountain roundaboout, 
- creating two passing places along the High St
- preventing parking round the octagon
- preventing parking on that congested bend between the George & Dragon and the Old Manor House
- preventing parking at the very end of Ashley Road by Church Walk
- preventing parking at the choke point by Harvest lane/Church Lane
and the yellows are extended along Station and Embercourt, Weston Green and Speer Roads adjacent to the station bridge, then around 35 (my guess) existing  places where people park, but shouldn't, will be lost and the pressures on remaining space will increase.

Those who advocated these things but who come to find adverse side-effects may have second thoughts, but too late.  However, it will make more work for traffic wardens and administrators and bring in some revenue from fines to defray their cost...

While on the subject, two more incidental anecdotes that might help readers realise that some solution that seems obvious to them is not perhaps meerkat-schimple:

1.  When we were looking at curfew parking in the High Street, with residents permits to exempt residents, there was an understandably alarmed reaction from the Islanders, many of whom have several cars to park on village streets (they were estimated to total around 72 cars in all, if I recall correctly).  This met with some furious reactions from other residents, some of whom were heard to argue along the line that "the islanders knew when they bought their houses that there was no parking in their private island, so that's their look-out."  An example - there were others - of the kind of bitter and distasteful disputes that were developing within our community.  The coup-de-grace to that parking proposal came when Surrey's officers, on consulting the regulations concerning residents' permits, discovered that such permits could be issued only to households contiguous with the parking area concerned.  This meant that the Islanders would/could not be issued with residents' permits for a restricted area in the High Street.  As one of the principles underlying the RA approach to the consultation was that one group of residents should not be unduly disadvantaged by a proposal which would favour another group of residents, we urged that that proposal should be abandoned.  (It is a very good principle, and another example of why I continue to volunteer some of my own time to the Association).

2.  As an example of likely unwanted side-effects from pursuing a change in parking ecology: most villagers would favour some restrictions on commuter parking near the station - but you can't readily identify which cars fall into that category, as Ratty points out.  TD station is popular with out-of-village commuters to London because it is in zone 6 and it is possible to park without having to pay extortionate parking fees.  But parking, like water, flows around obstructions.  If you put in parking restrictions and institute residents' parking in the station area, parking will be displaced, other residents in adjacent roads will want the same (even if, as owners of houses where two cars can be parked off-road they would not themselves be entitled to permits), and so it will spread.  Now consider the car park by TD Hall and the Library (also used by parents to drop off/collect schoolchildren).  It is free - and that fact helps to ensure the viability of the Library, which as you know is potentially threatened by Surrey's cost-cutters in the future, and the hall.  Our Dittons area Library is very well used, currently by some 7000 visitors a month, which bolsters the case for its continuation, and there is no doubt that free and available parking there is a significant factor in its use.  Consider the likely side-effect of restricting parking nearer to the station, plus the fact that the Library car-park is under ten minutes' walk from the station, and you can see that what would happen would be the displacement of commuter and other parking to the Library car park; it would become blocked by same; fees and machines would have to be introduced, and the active use of the Library and TD Hall would be reduced.....

I agree with all you are saying - but to me, and of course I am very biased in this view!!!, the only road that does not seem to have been considered in all of these new proposals, is Station Road. 

This might be totally untrue of course - but there seems to be a long list of Thames Ditton roads that HAVE been thought about, now including the library car park, the centre of the village, the area around Colets - etc etc.  The worrying aspect of all this,  is, like you say, that the parking problem will end up on the roads that no-one has bothered to think about.  The roads at the end of the "consideration" chain -  which will probably be Station Road (or so it seems to me - I don't know what other Station Road residents think about this!) Of course, this is worrying to me because I live on Station Road - and it is a purely selfish worry!  

I, like you Admin, do agree that Parking Proposals should definitely think about ALL the roads in Thames Ditton.  I realise that unless the roads that have been left to be commuter car parks, actually get together and find a complaining voice, we will just have to put up with the worry.  I think, so far, that there have only been two posts on this subject from Station Road residents, so I have no idea what the other residents of the road are thinking!

So it seems that things are never as SIMPLES as that pesky Meerkat says they are!

Sorry 

I forgot to say, that I DON'T THINK that there should be residents parking on Station Road, not at all.

We all have drives and can park our cars on them.  I just think that there should not be ALL DAY parking down the road because it is really causing a massive blockage through the village.  Today, we had workmen come to the house, they had to park on the road.  One side of Station Road was completely full with parked cars - so the workmen had to park on the other side of the road.  Blimey, we caused quite a few hold ups just by parking one car on the other side of the road. Short period parking, would be a more transient affair. 

I think that people SHOULD be able to park on Station Road to drop children off for school, to drop people off at the station, to go down to the village shops or visit the doctors etc etc.  I would much rather the road be used by the RESIDENTS of Thames Ditton to make their lives easier, than to be used by commuter who are just blocking up our roads to avoid paying parking charges.  

I would be interested to hear what other residents think about stopping all day commuter parking along Station Road.

Anyway, I must stop spending all my time writing on this Forum and get back to my work.  

Just to add that of course Station Road was among those visited and considered by Surrey's traffic engineers, and was part of the consultation with maps and proposals in the Library which they organised in (I think it was) 2009, where many residents with concerns attended and had their input - much of which was diametrically opposed to the input of other residents!  In the case of Station Road, they proposed the double yellows on the bend near the George to ease congestion, and yellows at the sort-of lay-by area at the junction with Basingfield Rd to prevent parking in that spot, used by school buses as a drop-off point.  Those proposals were "concretized" in the statutory orders put to "consultation" earlier this year - all the above was widely publicised in the magazine ond on this website - and implementation has been expected since September.

Whichever way is proposed to stop commuter parking it will have the effect of displacing such parking to other places (including the library car park) and round the loop we go...  A further consideration is that we calculated some 70 cars are parked daily by users of the station and that is a significant chunk of passengers (around 20% of season ticket holders IIRC) for a station the marginal viability of which is a matter for consideration.  As is the fact that one knows of at least two able-bodied villagers who actually drive to, and park near, the station even though they live no further away than Alexandra Rd and similar....  By the way, for a whole week in 2006 I walked the roads near the station with my camera, and there was no doubt that  (a) there is sufficient parking, if well and considerately used and properly spread out, and (b) except for rush-hours, and a few choke points that are genuinely obstructed by bad parking, the level of congestion seemed tolerable.

Parking along a through road that adds to congestion at times of heavy road use is one issue: but of course, the easier you make passage, the more traffic will use that road, and that is why villagers revolted in the 1960s when county traffic supremos wanted clearways and the village was used as a rat-run, with cars travelling at dangerous speeds and many accidents including fatalities.  [[ see threads on that other loop, the matter of speed control measures and bumps in particular...]]

A general problem in many roads throughout the area for houses with driveways seems to be that cars are parked so close to the driveway exit that drivers reversing out feel unsafe.  That appears to be something that is not addressed in regulations and we need expert forum member commuterparker to inform us on that one, I think.

Hi 

I remember the consultation going out re: the Parking in Thames Ditton, all those years ago!!!!  At the time, there was no parking problem in Station Road - none at all.  So I was quite happy to let other areas of Thames Ditton have their say.  That might have been a bit naive come to think about it - but hey, one always becomes more wise with time.  

Actually - if the consultation had come about two months ago - I probably would have still been happy with the amount of parking down Station Road.  Whatever  the cause - the parking down Station Road has gone from odd cars parked for short period of times to completely full with cars down one side of the road, for the whole day - in the blink of an eye.  The weekends are fine though - so it does suggest commuter parking I think.

I understand that some people need to drive very short distances - even though,  to able bodied people it might seem a bit selfish.  We have to remember that some people look able bodied - but they might have some hidden problem that means that they do, indeed, have to drive very short distances, to make their day easier.  I understand this very well indeed, from a personal level.

If you feel like walking down Station Road for a week now, in 2011, maybe it would be different from 2006!!!  The week would have to be before private and state school holidays, when work commuting is at normal levels and there were average type weather conditions.  I certainly would advise not picking Hampton Court Flower Show week (unless you want to prove that traffic levels are sky high).    You would also have to go at school pick up and drop off times, Esher College peak driving times, commuter times etc etc etc.  It would need some scientific time plan!!!!  It would be VERY HARD work - especially with a camera in hand!!!  I would have thought that some Council (Elmbridge or Surrey!!!) would have employed people to provide official empirical information about parking - but I realise maybe that is expecting far too much these days.

Ah well, these modern times.  I think we should all go back to the horse and cart!!!!

Yet again - I forgot to say something.  My memory is going ......

Can't wait to see if the yellow lines on Watts Road improve the driving through the Village.  They have just got to help haven't they?  At least there is a place to pull into now, and people won't have to drive up on the pavement, which I find awful.

Maybe these lines, and pulling in place, will also help the mood of the drivers motoring down Station Road and they won't be quite as impatient.  

I need to be prepared to give these things more time and see how they progress.  Hopefully everything will all even out and be good for all.

Still keen on the horse and cart idea though!!!

It may be that some of those cars parked in the more awkward spots belong to Station Road residents themselves, in an effort to slow down traffic/ dissuade people from using it as a rat run - just a thought.

HI

I think most Station Road people park on their drives.    When we have workmen or visitors either they have to park on the street, or we park on the street, so that the workmen can get their vans on the drives.  So the people of Station Road do have to park outside our houses, on the road, when necessary.  As far as I was aware, the speed humps were put down to slow the speed at which cars went down the road.  Unfortunately, they are next to useless and the faster people drive over them, the easier they are to get over.  So I think speed humps just encourage speeding!!!  Maybe people should take your idea and park in awkward spots on Station Road to slow traffic down - maybe it would prove more efficient than speed humps.  In fact, it would be cheaper for the council, to buy a few old cars and park them in places where they would cause cars to have to slow down.  What a very cheap means of traffic control that would be!!!!

Yellow line update:

Latest SCC consultations on further yellow liines:

Station Road along retaining wall by Manor House as far as basing way:  19 responses against, 1 for.  Abandoned.

Weston Green Road across the common (Jubilee villas to Ember lane): proposed yellow lines to create a few passing places along there will go ahead.  Only four responses, of which three in favour.

Grove way junction: proposal for yellow lines requested by Cranmere School: 8 against and none in favour.  Abandoned.

Chesnut Ave/Ember Lane: proposed double yellows extended around the corner there: six against, nobody in favour.  May now look at single yellows.

Summer Road/Alexandra Road SCC wanted to do something similar to the arrangement by Mrs Patel's, extending round the corner, to clear a line of sight for vehicles leaving/entering Alexandra Road.  Problem is how far to extend - don't want to lose too many parking places.  I gather they are still looking at that one.

If you're interested in any of these, come along to the next RA meeting on Tuesday 25 Sept and ask Cllr Peter

Bizarre - I just can't understand why people objected to lines in station Road and why people are worried about commuters. The commuters will move to elsewhere yes, but at the end of the day - they should either walk to the station if they live in the village, if commuters don't live here they should use other bigger stations with car parks.

Around that area, I can't see any houses without driveways but I may be wrong - tell me if I am wrong or just seeing a mirage of commuters parking there.

For local businesses, shouldnt the council give discounted or free parking in Ashley road car park.

There is no realistic chance of the council exempting Ashley Road car park from parking charges, I'm afraid.  We fought for two years to get the huge hike in charges reversed, so that now a resident can get a season ticket for just £100 for a whole year; and a non-resident business personfor just £200.  A short stay shopper pays 25p.

Yet the reduction in charges, fought for primarily with the retailers (both their employees and their customers) in mind but also with the thought that those without off-street parking, who use the High Street for parking, would also benefit from very cheap rates, has made no difference whatever to the occupancy of the car park.  In these circumstances it seems inevitable that either the car park will be sold off as unviable, or sooner or later both councils will revert to the policy of charging for on-street car parking to drive parkers into the car park.  While the present Elmbridge Cabinet assures questioners unofficially  that they have ' no intention of selling the car park' the matter has been left open in cabinet documents: see http://residents-association.com/news.php#car_parks

Use it or lose it.

To get charges abolished - or further subsidised - would mean that the cost of people's parking there falls entirely on the Elmbridge taxpayer in general, rather than partly on those who make use of the facility.  Personally, I would vote for that (which means we would be paying for other Elmbridge village car parks too) but I would be in a minority.  

Peter informs me he will be unable to attend the next Open Meeting.

So for info on yellow lines....email him!

I live on Station Road and have received no information regarding the proposed yellow lines by the Manor House - let alone anyone asking for my opinion.  Was the proposal posted on a lampost that I have missed?  I live nearer to the Station, but I imagine that no-one on Station Road thinks  fondly about commuters, we are sick to the back teeth of them parking along the road, making it difficult to get in and out of our drives.  The road is a nightmare to drive on now and as I keep on saying, it is so dangerous when people drive along the pavement.  BUT - if they just put yellow lines outside of the Manor House then that would just push all those people down to our end of the road.  

The proposal should have been for YELLOW LINES ALONG ALL OF STATION ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I think that might have got a different response than this half-baked proposal.  

What does everyone else think?  

COMMUTERS ARE A PAIN IN THE *** ALONG STATION ROAD.  (am I allowed to use ***) in this forum? 

I suggest that you see http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/parking/parking-news-and-updates/elmbridge-2011-parking-review which describes their officials' parking consultation and the state of play in the current Elmbridge consultation, and get in touch with Surrey's officials for any further explanation.

And you may use ****

I agree with mg - paint all the road. The bit we are discussing is on the plan, so i cant see the problem.

...and to provide a bit of balance, I disagree with any plans to cover the village in yellow lines, except at key junctions I'm afraid.  If there is any proposal to substantially increase the number of yellow lines, then I will make my views known in any consultation.

I drove down Station Road at 8pm yesterday, and there were still plenty of cars parked there, so they're unlikely to all be commuters.  The more yellow lines that are painted, the more that cars get squeezed into ever smaller and smaller areas to park.  You're not going to get rid of the cars, so the fewer yellow lines there are, the fewer the problems there will be for those cars to find spaces, and hence the lower the density of parking.  

Given the responses to the extra yellow lines proposal by the Manor House, it sounds like your views for more yellow lines are unfortunately in a minority, mg and BlueSky.  The notices were posted on the railings in the location of the proposed yellow lines for quite some time, and were there for all to see.

If there is a problem with cars driving on pavements on Station Road, then I suggest you lobby your councillors to ask for bollards.  Perhaps you should raise it at the next open meeting?

Rhodrich puts it very well.

As explained on numerous occasions, there have been exhaustive and very thorough parking consultations over the past six years and not only has there been no consensus, but there have been very few points where a fair majority has supported something, or a matter of traffic regulations has demanded something - and even then, the minimal changes introduced in consequence have proved highly controversial when implemented.  Each resident has a strongly-held view, generally based on their own particular interest and frequently opposed to the views and the interests of other residents, to the point where the matter has been immensely divisive in the community.

However, that is not to say that all is fixed in stone and there may not be new ideas to look at in an attempt to solve particular problems.  Some of those ideas concern cars mounting the pavements of Station Road at speed.  Another one I have heard recently is the introduction of physical choke-points to prevent through passage of oversized vehicles (obvious problems which that might cause come to mind).

The way to proceed with ideas, as has often been outlined, is:

1.  Get together support for a specific proposal from residents of your road
2.  Put the proposal to Surrey Highways dept. http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/parking/on-street-parking-controls and follow the link to http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/parking/on-street-parking-controls/parking-problem
3. Copy them to our county councillor (but the proposals must come directly from residents to the officials)

Surrey's traffic engineers and officials will then look at it.  If a proposal is carried forward, it will then be put to public consultation, as with the yellow lines.  That consultation is a statutory process and is clearly defined.  The views of residents of the road concerned are rightly given more weight, as I understand it.  The matter then goes before the Local Area Committee with the officers' recommendations and the decision is taken accordingly.

Meanwhile, the fundamental problem is that there are too many cars and their drivers are frequently inconsiderate of others and of pedestrians.

Thanks admin. There appears to be two camps, one for bollards and for lines. Of course there will people who want both and others who want none.

It appears, to me the health and safety argument is a stronger argument, so I would support the bollards and see how things go. Obviously there is a process to follow, but I would be keen to make progress. Perhaps can I suggest a midweek meeting in one of the quieter end rooms in the Swan to get some thoughts together and make the application to Surrey at later meetings.

From what I have observed this year it is the vans, lorries and other vehicles belonging to the many contractors working on the homes of Station Road residents that have caused the greatest nuisance. 

With regards to people driving along the pavement, I suspect it is because the curb is unusually high. As such, they do so in order to avoid the risk of losing a hubcap or scraping their alloys. However, it is an offence under the Highway Act 1835, Section 72 (Rule 145 in the Highway Code).

(Unusually) I completely disagree with Rhodrich.  Leave the quieter side roads or those further away from the station free of lines but slap down the yellows on main through routes and roads near the station to discourage commuters.
I think you will find that 90% of the parkers are commuters.  The guy who favours the spot that regularly blocks my drive has an old banger that is quite often left in the space the whole weekend (presumably because he has been out on the p@@@ on the Friday night) and only salvaged on Sunday evening.
Have been tempted to let down the tyres but understand this is criminal damage.
Grrrrrr

I am afraid that commuters leave their cars on Station Road until very late at night and, as already been mentioned,  for days at a time.  Also, we are getting people parking at the weekend too, I can only assume they are catching the train into London for shopping etc!

It has completely changed the whole feeling of the road.   

Now that people know that they can park along Station Road, it is always going to be jam packed with commuters using it as a free car-park I'm afraid.  

ps.  Glad that I have been allowed to say "pain in the ****" on the forum Admin:)

Surely the answer is single yellow lines that operate in the mornings.  I understand people can now use them for a short period.

Why don't the council rap around the yellow lines into the high street upto Ashley Road so people can actually drive withiout stopping.

Double yellow lines have now appeared at the junction of Thistledene and Embercourt Road. 
As much as I hate to see the encroaching of surburbia these have vastly improved the access and safety of that junction. Of course the net effect will be to push commuters further down Thistledene and consequently result in cars parked both sides of the road (as today) possibly restricting wide vehicles.

Midibob

Parking on side roads make more sense - something better needs to also happen the george and Dragon junction - that's three ways

Looks a lot better now, too. How did this happen overnight? And what's the process